Emission Trading Scheme announced

The federal government has announced its greenhouse gas emissions target for 2020 of a 5 to 15 per cent reduction on what emission levels were in 2000. 

The full details are here.  There are lots of figures scattered, which can all feel like a bit of a blur after a while.  But the simple fact is that a 5 per cent reduction target is abysmally low – about the best that can be said about it is that at least it is movement in the right direction.

However, according to the White Paper, “Australia’s target range translates to a 34–41 per cent reduction in the per capita emissions of every Australian over this period.” Even this low taregt is still not going to be met just by osmosis – or an emissions trading scheme.  The investment in quickly adopting low emission technology and higher energy efficiency will be the key to whether this can be done.

There’s plenty of commentary and detail elsewhere, so rather than write anymore here, I’ll just put some links to some other sites.

Crikey is liveblogging the announcement.

Some other links:  Sam at Public Polity, economist John Quiggin equates the White Paper with a White Flag, George Megalogenis at his Meganomics blog unpacks the economics and equity (or not) of the ETS compensation package, Mark at LP examines the politics of ‘balance’, Robert at LP says the targets are simply to low given the reality of the science, Peter Wood at Climate Dilemma also examines the targets, Tim Lambert at Deltiod provides an easy logical shortcut to analysing the adequacy of the White Paper, Ben Eltham and Anna Rose at New Matilda stirs up a lively debate. Possum at Pollytics tries to bring some hard political numbers into the analysis.

Hugh White at The Interpreter makes what he suggests are some obvious points, followed by an obvious conclusion:

“Obvious conclusion: Australia should launch a major campaign, perhaps working with others, to design a credible, effective outcome for Copenhagen and sell it around the world.”

Jonathan Green asserts that the fact the Ben Cousins’ story is far bigger than the government’s climate change  response in itself is a failure of leadership.

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32 Comments

  1. Well they’ve finally done it.

    After years of campaigning against the GST the ALP has found their own little nest egg. There’s no doubt about it, we the population are going to be taxed liked never before. The poorest people will fund both government and Transnational corporations while the people and our own regional companies will pay through the teeth to prop up both governments coffers and the major poluters credit system.

    Brokers will hit the streets earning commissions and rewards as the poorest members of our society suffer. (More of the Bmw’s and mobile sect we saw prior to the financial collapse)
    Whether you believe in man made global warming or not this form of taxation was never going to work or be the answer.

    With Australia’s output of a measly 1.4% and land mass credits of 2.4% one would have to wonder what good this tax will do besides lining the coffers of governments and TNC’s.

    Even the worse financial crisis since the 1930’s has not stopped this ideoligical drive to implement this horrific & regresive tax.

    Rewards systems have always lead to the advancements of technologies and ideas, rarely does this sort of sledge hammer approach the ALP government has chosen work.

    They even try to convince us that this new tax has an economic benefit. ?

    Surely Australia is not the gullible.

    Tony

  2. Tony:

    I hope it won’t get as bad as you say.

    Some people were very critical of Rudd for not taking a much larger step.

    Some extremely fanatical Greens did their best to disrupt Rudd’s National Press Club address. Bob Brown stepped in and praised one hysterical young woman as being a true Australian.

    There were lots of angry faces in the audience. I’m not sure which sideof the argument most of them were on.

    One single journalist who was earning $80,000 complained that she would not receive the same government subsidy as a sole parent. Try as I might, I couldn’t shed a single tear for her.

    I don’t mind cleaning up the environment a bit, but I think Rudd is wise to dip his toes into the water to test the temperature first, rather than dive head first into a whole school of pirahna.

  3. The extent of Rudd’s climate change action has been to offer some token symbolism to the voters and to make sure business didn’t get too upset. I think business could’ve handled a tougher target and it would’ve been good for innovation, investment, etc. if we had tougher targets because it’d be clear that we’re serious.

    Now, we’re just going to continue to fall further behind the rest of the world. Australia is no longer the bold innovator, unafraid to take the first steps into uncharted waters. We have grown complacent, lazy and entitled. Although who can blame us? Our last government told us not to worry about other peoples’ problems.

  4. Most critics are overlooking the fact that it is per capita emission that matters, so far as getting global agreement on what to do. There is no way of getting India and China on board unless the ultimate goal is a per capita emission budget that is essentially similar for all nations.

    Even then, the Indians and Chinese would have to concede their claim that the industrialised West has had a century of uncapped emissions, and therefore should actually have a lower future per capita budget than the Indians and Chinese.

    According to 2004 figures, Australia emitted 16.3 tonnes of CO2 per capita, the US 20.4, Germany 9.9, China 3.8 and India 1.2. A sustainable global per capita budget would be slightly below China’s present emission level. (This is only part of the story as CO2 is not the only greenhouse gas and these figures do not take into account changes in land use – e.g. deforestation. However it indicates the general picture.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

  5. Lorikeet:

    Lorikeet says: Some extremely fanatical Greens did their best to disrupt Rudd’s National Press Club address. Bob Brown stepped in and praised one hysterical young woman as being a true Australian

    Yes most people consider the beliefts of the extreme greens to be a humanistic version of radical fundamentalism. I’d have to agree with that.

    Remember when the GST was introduced John Howard offered tit bits a mealsy ($200) for small business for software to convert and record. He then lumbered them with the introduction of the Bas that sore small businesses costs rise unbelievably.

    Kevin Rudd is also offering measly tit bits to incourage the population to take on this monster tax. He knows this is the most regressive tax ever to be lumbered on a population and he’ll try to make it look as rosey as possible.

    The fact is though once introduced this tax could change our country forever. Every facet of our lives will converted forever. It will govern over what we drive, Eat, drink, what airconditioning we can have, how many kids we can have etc etc.

    Once implemented this will become the greatest cash cow for a government ever imposed on a population and will have no effect on climate change whatsoever. Whether the world is entering an ice age (as the Russians believe) or warming as Junk Science King Al Gore believes. It will make no difference.

    Tony

  6. Tony, an Emissions Trading Scheme doesn’t carry with it any attempt at population control. Are you so blinded by your hatred for science and rational thought that you want to attribute everything you detest to one particular group?

  7. Although 5% by 2020 is at the conservative end compared to Ross Garnault and the even highter targets of the secular cult fanatics who get to make unrepresentative statements on the evening news, this is all a cost that ordinary workers and their families are going to be burdened with. Despite all the compensation figures, they are prone to revision according to political winds.
    The issue isn’t even ‘climate change’ as the mad secular cultists and chattering classes are chanting. The issue has always been POLLUTION ( of groundwater, rivers, sea,land and air). Natural gass and electric power along with a backlog of dams( denied to the rank and file worker by the unrepresentative Church hating Greens).

  8. Mikem:

    I’ve been thinking a bit more about the issue of per capita emissions. Surely it would make more sense to look at the degree of concentration of emissions in any particular area.

    As far as I’m aware, the vast bulk of the Australian landscape/airspace is comparatively clean i.e. we have a lot of land space per capita.

    Sam:

    I don’t think Tony is blinded at all. Carbon trading is probably just another way for global government to get their hands on more of the money – clearly not satisfied to take 20% of everyone’s super and a bail out package as well.

    There are many hundreds of highly qualified scientists who don’t agree with the IPCC.

    Tony:

    If we are forced to drink recycled sewerage, that’s what will have an effect on how many children we have. I finally got a reply from my scientist friend in Adelaide. He said recycled sewerage is only being sold to market gardeners in SA. Absolutely NONE goes into the town water supply. Whatever isn’t used goes out to sea.

    He said the biggest concern is the amount of oestrogen in recycled sewerage, from all of the women taking the contraceptive pill. I think he might be afraid men will become infertile and start singing soprano.

    He said those who don’t want to drink recycled water will need to avoid bottled water imported from Singapore and Indonesia.

    Michael:

    That’s right. We don’t know what governments are likely to do in the future.

  9. TONY – Do you support the billions of dollars that go to the fossil fuel industry? $10 billion to be exact. BHP Billiton at its uranium mine in SA was using megalitres of water per day FREE in the state with the worst rainfall history, and while Adelaide was almost without any water. Now, in order to extend their uranium mine, this multinational company who makes billions of dollars profit annually, is going to build a desalination plant, which carries its own dangers to the oceans and life in it.

    These companies have had about 20 years to improve their efficiency; adopt better practices and show a semblance of integrity – they all chose not to. Now, they’re bellyaching about a piffling 5% with those who are appalled by Rudd’s pathetic attempt to appease those of us who are concerned. They’ve had bloody good years, and if they were a sole parent wanting government support, they’d be chopped off all funding if they didn’t accept any job after their youngest child turned 6. The same applies to tax cheats – wealthy ones. Only the other day, the govt announced clamping down on people who defraud via pensions, benefits, but those who steal by not paying their taxes cost us BILLIONS! Like everything, those with the most are taxed the least, have worse morals re paying their way, and too many here think that’s OK? Well I don’t! And when the Barrier Reef goes, and Tasmania isn’t worth visiting, who’ll supply alternate employment then?

    We give money to Indonesia and other places to plant trees, while govts allow logging in old growth forests to continue. It’s most depressing. The double standards make me sick! When Arnie in California (last week)promoted the solar energy plant, he mentioned that the technology came from Australia – Howard forced Dr David Mills out of the country. I cringed with shame! I support the Greens!
    When the emissions from our exported coal are added to our emissions, we look like criminals, vandals! Stuffing around with kids futures!

  10. Lorikeet:

    Lorikeet Says: He said the biggest concern is the amount of oestrogen in recycled sewerage, from all of the women taking the contraceptive pill. I think he might be afraid men will become infertile and start singing soprano.

    Thanks Lorikeet good to see you’re reading our website.
    Ps; We’re still looking for some good council candidates in you’re area. Ready to go yet ? Maybe even a state seat ? (applications closing fast)

    Mick is one of our Nsw members.

    Thats been a major issue in the UK on recycled sewage but as this is about the carbon tax…. we should stick to the subject.

    Naomi says: The double standards make me sick!

    You really need to do something about that Naomi…everytime you get into a debate you feel sick ?

    By the way Naomi… who do you think is sharing in this public rip off.
    Thats right the companies that you are whingeing about (TNC’s)

    Naomi Says: Do you support the billions of dollars that go to the fossil fuel industry? $10 billion to be exact. BHP Billiton at its uranium mine in SA was using megalitres of water per day FREE in the state with the worst rainfall history, and while Adelaide was almost without any wate

    Yes those companie will enjoy takeing your money as carbon credits.
    The reason why governments and TNCs will rob from the public is that we have people in our communtiy that think like this:

    Naomi Says: cringed with shame! I support the Greens!

    I’d cringe with shame as well if I supported the greens.

    Tony

  11. The money from the Australian ETS isn’t going to be given to any “global government”, the idea is that we restrict emissions and make people bid against each other for the right to pollute. The problem is that the subsidies the government is giving to “trade exposed industry” is just going to be a transfer of wealth from Australian citizens to the large polluters.

    The world environment is in crisis and you seem to think it’s some beatup by climate scientists and a “global government” to take your money away. There may be hundreds of scientists who disagree with the IPCC but there are tens of thousands who agree and recognise that it’s time to act. What do we have to lose by cleaning up our industry and reducing the number of single occupant vehicles on the road? There are heaps of other positive outcomes from a properly organised attempt to fix global warming such as reforestation, better public transport systems, energy production which doesn’t rely on mining a finite resource, etc.

  12. Tony:

    I didn’t read it on your website. I said I got it on the email from my scientist friend in Adelaide.

    No one could beat our sitting local Councillor at an election, not even using a stick. The man is a human dynamo, even when disaster occurs, after he has been amalgamated into a much bigger electorate.

    I think it would be a good time to run a DLP candidate at the State election. Queenslanders are cheesed off with Labor, and the abuses of Liberals at a federal level are still close to the forefronts of people’s minds.

    I thought my comment on recycled sewerage had some relevance, since Labor governments want to both “clean us up and clean us out” one minute, and then poison us the next.

    Greens are even more dangerous.

    A few days ago, I saw one of these mining magnates on TV. He said he saw it as “our” duty to raise the living standards of the Chinese – trying to make it sound as if he had a purely altruistic agenda – instead of pocket-lining “Me Syndrome”.

    Naomi:

    I don’t think Australia can take responsibility for all of the world’s woes, but I definitely agree that some of our best innovators are going overseas, very often taking Australian jobs with them.

  13. Personally,I am a bit lazy,I find it of no use to condemn Greens,Government or Transnationals etc. until,and only until,I see they are not listening at all.The fact is,Rudd is carrying a load with this,which isn’t about being abusive to the Greens.And Bob Brown is just supporting his own supporters.It isn’t an impossibility for Chinese and Indian research to find real and valuable solutions to carbon dioxide emissions,as gas as particles and as soot,as it is some of the power stations are being built with American input.Water use is a problem,but bullshit is a worse problem,so what has being anti Church and dams got to do with a water shortage for industrial settings!? I am saddened by job losses,but I am more saddened by the unencouraging abuse of this problem.These mining companies may now have time to think about these issues more definitively.And whilst there is an economic crisis in financing,the coal reserves ,surely are still valuable assets to wisely value and harness intelligently.It is not time to call Green supporters extremist,it is time for cool heads in all the criticized industries with innovation that is caring ,concerned,and allows the critics to regain composure.Aluminium is both a problem and potentially a solution to problems perceived as such..Nikola Tesla was very interested in the potentials of that industry.His works, Teslas,still are dominant influences in matters of alternative power resourcing.The relationships of aluminium and magnetic influences need continual exploration.Within that exploration,there may well be,an encounter with H2o,and thus water, hydrogen fuel generation etc.Coal aluminium are the big industries that are giants compared to others.Can giants topple without disaster,or,we merrily, find how to edge them towards the tsunami,not of their making,but as heroes they topple in death !? Be calm.. be studied,and be convincing!

  14. philip travers

    Philip Travers says: Teslas,still are dominant influences in matters of alternative power resourcing.The relationships of aluminium and magnetic influences need continual exploration.Within that exploration,there may well be,an encounter with H2o,and thus water, hydrogen fuel generation etc.Coal aluminium are the big industries that are giants compared to others

    Free and alternative power that was the work of Tesla wouldn’t be of any use to the government. First it might work. It would also reduce the carbon out but at the end of the day wouldnt raise enough revenue for the government.

    See even though they speak it, they’re really not interested in improving the environment unless they can make a buck along the way.

    Tony

  15. Sam:

    Be that as it may, what makes you think that “global government” and “large polluters” could not be synonymous?

    They make a mess and make a buck. Then we get to pay for it.

    I think the Chinese intend to continue to buy all of our “finite resources” BEFORE using theirs. Then who do you think will be in charge?

  16. LORIKEET:

    Looks like it will be a massive tasks to stop this horrific tax. Lets just hope the Kevin Rudd actually makes it an election issue and takes us to the polls before he implements it.

    I’ve heard people argue that the last election saw him get a mandate on the ETS, but anyone who thinks the last election was about anything but workchoices has no idea.

    Howard at least took the GST to the Polls, If Kevin Rudd is half the man that Howard was, he’d allow us a chance before introducing a consumption tax of this magnitude and consequence. This tax would make the GST look like a minor issue.

    This certainly will be the tax of all taxes and will effect everyone in this country forever, lets hope people wake up before its too late. Think about it, Once introduced they can continue to tax everything we consume or use. No leader past or present will have had the power and control of a population that this tax will provide.

    Tony

  17. It was a clear part of Kevin Rudd’s election platform to introduce an ETS, along with ratifying Kyoto.

    There’s also plenty of evidence suggesting that the fact Labor was taking greenhouse seriously was a key reason, after workchoices, why people shifted their votes from Howard.

    An ETS is also Liberal Party policy (at the moment at least) – they would just introduce it a bit later.

    And this is nowhere near as big a tax as the GST in regards to how much revenue it was raise – not even close.

  18. Tony – ” I’d cringe with shame as well if I supported the greens.” Oh clever! Do you always engage in adult discussions in this manner? I personally don’t have much faith in ETS. I think we should be concentrating on saving energy; putting money into renewable forms of energy; stop cutting down native forests etc. We’ve wasted enough time already. Govts and multinational companies have been reaping in money hand over fist, and now the mining industry etc are whining. They’ve had at least 20 yrs – almost 12 yrs of Howard has been wasted. It’s possibly too late anyway! If you’re so determined that you’re right, OK, but don’t whinge when the Barrier Reef is gone, together with the over 60,000 people employed to show it off, or ????

    TONY – Where were you during the campaign last year? Out of the country? As Andrew correctly says, global warming was a big issue during the campaign. Go back and look at the evidence!
    I won’t mind paying a bit more if I know it’s saving the planet from being 2-5 degrees warmer, and the horror that will cause. I find it remarkable, that those who stridently oppose anything that smacks of socialism, accept the socialisation of corporate losses. Look at the direct and indirect monies given to multinationals etc; it’s just accepted as a part of life. They wouldn’t survive except for ‘socialism’ by successive govts.

  19. Andrew Bartlett

    Andrew Says: An ETS is also Liberal Party policy (at the moment at least) – they would just introduce it a bit later.

    I dont think the liberal party have any idea where they stand on this issue.
    There are a number of Nationals though, like ourselves that are strongly against the introduction of the ETS and our preferences will be aimed at individuals or any partys that help halt this tax.

    Andrew Says: And this is nowhere near as big a tax as the GST in regards to how much revenue it was raise – not even close.

    In its current form, that may be the case, but it has the potential of being the most engulfing tax ever. There is virtually nothing that wont be able to be brought into this tax scheme as they move along. One only has to look at the Qld governments environmental levies being imposed to see that the public are already paying too much.

    The whole idea of taxing the lower end to provide credit for the polluters should be against any socially responsible government, There are far better measures that could be taken in leu of a trading scheme to fuel speculators and brokers that will cash in and make money at the expense of our country’s poorest. (The last thing we need at the moment)

    The major polluters are already putting in place strategies that will assit them cash in on this money spinner.

    The other idea that we can provide an international fund to halt logging etc in countries like indonesia sounds wonderfull. Maybe Mr and Rudd and Anna Bligh can explain to our 7 or 8 thousand homeless in Brisbane (that cant afford housing why we need to raise power costs to help some logger in Indonesia.

    We need sound economic heads at the moment, not an ideology that steels money from our poorest to make a few greenies feel warm and fuzzy. The sad part though, that most politicians agree on one thing….. This tax will achieve absoltutely nothing

    Tony

  20. Tony:

    Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought it was Howard who said he would NEVER introduce a GST – then did it very soon after being elected. He didn’t give a stuff what voters thought. Now Liberals have turned

    Rudd has only been in power a little over a year. I don’t think he will be taking the ETS to another election before implementing it. That could be political suicide, and even if that weren’t the case, why would he want to run the risk of cutting his term very short on other possible issues?

    I think it remains to be seen where the ETS will take us in future years. To my knowledge, the GST is 10%. In 2007, super funds lost around 10% or more. In 2008 they lost about 20% to any cunning bastard looking to take it, with bail-out funds also being paid to perpetrators.

    I think the people are being sent backwards financially at a rapid pace. Now there is talk of cutting off unemployment benefits after 6 months, and greater efforts to get the disabled into the workforce. Worse still, behind the scenes I am noticing a trend towards blaming workers’ personal health (constitution) for workplace injuries and aggravation of old injuries.

    If I were you, I would concentrate on the State election which comes up before September 2009. If you need help with speech writing or strategies, I am willing to assist.

    To my knowledge, Liberals offer little competition to Labor at the present time, at both State and Federal levels.

    Naomi:

    The biggest issues at the last election were Workchoices, Health and Education. Most people are only interested in problems currently being encountered in their daily lives. Their knowledge of politics would appear to be minimal outside of the hip pocket and lack of services.

    I realise you support the Greens for purely altruistic reasons, but your allegiance is misplaced. Greenish politicians are scaring mostly young people on purpose, in order to service the very global interests that you deplore.

  21. Lorikeet – Howard made the never ever statemnet in 1995 prior to the 96 election. He did then recant that seeminlgy unequivocal position in March 98 by introducing the GST concept as the issue for the eventual October 1998 “GST” election.

    He then won that election, albeit with a redcued majoirty and Kim Beazely actually won the popular vote, but not the seats.

    So he certainly did go back on his “word’, not many people let alone pollies haven’t at some time in their life, but its not quite correct to say he introdceud it without going to the people.

  22. Lorkeet:

    Lorikeet Says: If I were you, I would concentrate on the State election which comes up before September 2009. If you need help with speech writing or strategies, I am willing to assist.

    I’d certainly appreciate that . The young bloke that has always spent his life (out of his own pocket &feeding the homeless)now has a wife that is pregnant. Even with all excitement he had with his new wife he has asked me to make sure that someone is there to have the barbque,

    Actually it has broght his mum and dad back together and both don’t understand why they could have had such a wonderul child.

    He says that he prayed to god that they would.

    Since the awfull legistation in Victoria many members of all party’s have been in discussions with me.

    Any help you could provide will be most appreciated…. and as I dont ever hide who I am ….. and email would do.

    Tony

  23. LORIKEET – “I realise you support the Greens for purely altruistic reasons, but your allegiance is misplaced. Greenish politicians are scaring mostly young people on purpose, in order to service the very global interests that you deplore.” And you can prove this because???Don’t patronize young people! They’re pretty sharp I think. It’s their future we’re stuffing around with!

    Funny how there’s lots of young people who support the Greens, as there are lots who voted for the first time last November, and Global Warming was extremely high on their priority list. I know lots of them were also involved with Get Up, ACTU Your Rights At Work campaign, but I’d say that climate change is of the utmost concern to young people at present. If we let them down, it’s like taking out huge loans now, and leaving them with the mess after we’re gone! I find that very sobering indeed! I’d like to leave the planet in better shape than I ‘found it’, and as I was born 4 months prior to the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there’s lots to do! People let that happen too? 63 yrs later, people are stilll suffering and dying in agony. I find that pretty reprehensible, shocking even!

    The climate change sceptics don’t produce any strong evidence to support their view. I’ve lost interest in debating it now! I’ve said before, the best we can end up with, is a cleaner planet, even if the science about human contribution is not correct. I’m concerned about the high incidence of cancer now, and I’m constantly amazed, that people just accept it as part of life – I want to know why every 2nd/3rd person can anticipate being diagnosed with cancer. To me, the numbers have increased with increased toxins etc in the environment. It should be a national crisis. Imagine if the billions the US has poured into this global financial crisis was spent on poverty, water/food for all and investigating cancer?A good economy is useless if the planet is buggered!

  24. Thanks, Ken.

    Tony:

    Perhaps you could ask Andrew to give me your email address or he could give you mine.

    Andrew:

    I’m flying to Canberra tomorrow to spend a week with my grandchildren, so I’ll take this opportunity to wish you, your family and everyone contributing or reading here a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

  25. Thanks Tony! But Tesla research activity,because it was so lateral thinking in outcome,is still able to be applied,without mattering too much wether it is free energy.I think,apart from a few individuals in Australia,with the experimental insight and experience, to make a suggestion,of research Tesla in terms of aluminium and carbon dioxide,remains only that,at this stage. I recently had my little ego boosted yesterday by some news evolving around the use of coffee beans as a fuel substitute.Somewhere in the blogs,I suggested that…the research and development has occured elsewhere.Small companies can be formed on any of the issues evolving around new uses for aluminium in relationship to carbon dioxide and aluminium smelters themselves.I think, just looking at a spark plug,and knowing all its details,hints at something aluminium companies can do with matters familiar..What a wonderful,and all to easily forgotten thing is a spark plug..I can only hint at,because,to enlarge hurts more everyday.There is much to be said of thinking about temperature ranges,and,Exair products..adding to the hidden and incomplete suggestion.

  26. Naomi I think represents a lot of intelligent views,that are battle fatigued,and confuse, a moral indignation,that asserts louder than the potential for a managed response.I regular visit DavidIcke.com, to be regularly shocked,on a personal level,and notice that there are many ways to come to conclusions.Today,I have visited once,to find, another scientist,among Gore’s group was indeed happy not to be employed by that man.I know Andrew Bartlett here is convinced,almost, another man of high prominence isn’t reprehensible,I have made my mind up on that,it doesn’t however mean the wash up wont be the same as my conclusion. If these matters of truth telling or lack of it ,cross across political boundaries,and their backers,as now I accept they do.Then it follows that the Janus-faced values will continue unabated….and climate change matters are battle fronts for some to prove they can influence for the good.What good is that,has unraveled to me,to be not so common and, if caring comes at an incredible price.That price isn’t emissions,but the screwed up nature of how a diabolical choice has been created,out of a gas,that cannot be seen with the naked eye.But naked ambition stalks the concerned,in a manner that is only visible by a small group of approaches to this criticism of emissions. I will not dance to a commitment by others,unless I myself choreograph my own shadow punches, against that which stalk..where no-one can hardly see them!?I have looked away from the computer a couple of times or more in DavidIcke.com connected sites.I just couldn’t handle what I saw about babies in Iraq and sometimes a view into Palestine.Andrew remains a good man to me,because he has as a Senator faced this,whereas,I haven’t had that terrible dilemma of attempting to be fair with an evil, just out of sight amongst countries we call friends and allies.I have come to mistrust The U.S.A. naked ambitions,Murdoch,two passport citizens, Presidents and ex-so-so s.

  27. Andrew:

    I would just to wish everyone on this site a very merry christmas.
    Its been a good year, and no doubt next year will hold more excitement with a Qld state Election likely to be called at anytime.

    I know I’ll be off the site for a few days. I’ve got a few books to read over the break. Including….B A Santamaria running the show,
    The Costello Memoirs and The Shock Doctrine Naomi Klien.

    I think that will keep me busy.

    Tony

  28. Having spoken with some Canberrans and surrounding country locals, it now seems even more clear what is going on.

    The country people say the Greens are against wind farms because eagles and other birds will fly into them and get hurt. But the locals say that birds know exactly how to dodge windmills, because they didn’t fly down in the last shower. They think it’s more the case that there aren’t enough taxes to be collected from the population due to the use of wind power.

    One man said that Rudd has decided to give the people only a small taste of a carbon tax at first – either to work up to it slowly so that the people are less annoyed and less likely to show him the door – or if necessary, to backtrack very quickly in order to save his political hide.

    This man’s prediction is that all of the Greens will be out on their ears at the next election, and therefore no amalgamation between Labor and Greens will ever occur.

  29. Merry Christmas Andrew.

    Since the release of the ETS, endless column inches have been dedicated to commentary upon the energetic (and apparently highly successful) lobbying on behalf of the carbon-intensive industries with the most to lose.

    The majority of articles focused upon the impact of the lobbying upon the efficacy of our ETS, yet I am yet to read about EXACTLY WHAT the lobbying process would have been. Are you able to shed some light on this? In your opinion, how would any negotiations between the govt and industry lobbyists have proceeded? What would the carbon-intensive industries actually have bought to the table in any ETS-related negotiations? Surely they must have more than the old chestnut of the ‘off-shore job leakage’ threat.

    Cheers,
    Paul

  30. Andrew!I know this is slightly askew from the subject matter,but there are some embarassing things going on.As a Queenslander,I am sure when it comes to the weather,you have been watching the Cyclonic conditions.N o embrassment there.But you can read the embarassing predictions by The Nature Conservation people,and the C.S.I.R.O. not much better with their talk of 18.6 year cycles of king tides,whilst the cyclonic matters have been bedevilling Queensland etc. I dont think it is a laughing matter to have predicted today as the King Tide day,but serene,as the SMH. writer has suggested ,to me means it could happen soon,and badly.There is no safety in the C.S.I.R.O. statement as reported. One can only hope.

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