Good words from Pope
A short and positive reprise to my recent post on the merits of various strategies for engaging with and talking about Islam, which led to some comments on recent statements by the Pope. A report on the ABC website details some comments made by the Pope in a meeting he’s just held with diplomatic envoys from around 20 Muslim countries, including Indonesia, Egypt, Pakistan, Turkey, Iran and Iraq, plus the Arab League.
According to the report, the Pope expressed his “esteem and profound respect” for members of the Islamic faith, made repeated references to the need for dialogue between faiths and said that “Christians and Muslims must learn to work together … in order to guard against all forms of intolerance and to oppose all manifestations of violence.”
Those sound like a pretty good set of statements to me.
15 Comments, Comment or Ping
C.L.
They’re the same sentiments expressed by Vatican II 40 years ago. What we need is Islamic leaders saying the same things and making the same effort – otherwise there is no dialogue. Unfortunately, most of them have instead chosen to incite hatred and violence in the wake of the Regensberg address. For there to be true progress, Islamic leaders must now a) apologise for inciting violence; b) acknowledge freedom of speech and religion as absolute human rights; c) renounce incitment to violence as a political strategy; d) express regret for having contributed to the fury that led to the murder of Sr. Leonella Sgorbati, apologise to her family and religious community and publicly condemn (and ban) those “clerics” who called for the Pope himself to be crucified or beheaded; and e) commit themselves to changing their ways.
Then we’ll have a dialogue.
Sep 26th, 2006
Jason Grossman
This Pope has denounced factory farming. And in looking for a citation for that I’ve just discovered that his predecessor said that animals have souls. (http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/mccartney%20praises%20pope).
Jason
Sep 26th, 2006
wmmbb
The Pope could never say he was “sorry” or address the effect his words on another set of believers. He speaks with the imprimatur of the doctrine of papal infallibility, which may tie his hands, if not his lips. Given the Pope’s form all his pronouncements will now be treated with scepticism.
Now that Islamophobia has been acknowledged, a construct that may be reciprocated for all I know by Muslims, at least it will not play the role of the elephant in the room that cannot be admitted, and so productive talk may be possible in the context of an alternating pattern of anatagonistic and cooperative history of Christendom and Islam.
Sep 26th, 2006
Louise
They’re the same sentiments expressed by Vatican II 40 years ago. What we need is Islamic leaders saying the same things and making the same effort – otherwise there is no dialogue.
I have to agree with CL here. I suppose I will now be dismissed as “Islamophobic,” but the elephant in the room is Islamic Extremists.
Apologies from Islamic leaders are not forthcoming.
The Pope could never say he was “sorry” or address the effect his words on another set of believers. He speaks with the imprimatur of the doctrine of papal infallibility, which may tie his hands, if not his lips. Given the Pope’s form all his pronouncements will now be treated with scepticism.
wmmbb, I’m not sure you understand papal infallibility, which is limited to matters of faith and morals, when the Pope is speaking “ex cathedra.”
When the Pope makes an infallible pronouncement – everyone knows it.
The Pope can say “sorry” any time he likes. The only thing he can’t do is contradict Church teaching.
Sep 26th, 2006
wmmbb
Louise:
I stand corrected. I read that stuff on papal infallibility, not to suppose I made sense of it, but sufficient to recall the reference to “ex cathedra”.
We just have to hope that extremists do not speak Christianity as much as they do not speak for Islam.
My reference to Islamophobia, arose from what Karen Armstrong had written, in part:
Just one historian’s opinion, I suppose.
Then there is the opinion of the former Catholic priest and columnist for the Boston Globe, James Carroll, who makes the theological and historical case far better than I could.
A diplomatic “sorry” may be possible, but I doubt it is likely.
Sep 26th, 2006
People Against Live Exports
Jason Grossman
Thank you for that information and Link.
Its hard to find some person who is capable of seeing past theit own front door and ego these days.
refreshing to see your comment. I will take a look. perhaps you may be interested in a forum that is running at the moment named >
Church Leaders Turn their backs on Animal Welfare.
I will post the link up for you if you are interested
Sep 27th, 2006
Geoff
Who the hell is Karen Armstrong? Honestly.
I has Muslim neighbours… for 10 of the last 12 years. Did I fear them? No. Did I hate them? No.
Good grief, the Crusades and anti-semitism? You are kidding.
Until very recently Islam and Muslims have not been feared orhated In fact for many many years they have been romanticised and looked on as heroes in the West, feted in many forms of its culture.
Only since the consistent spate of terrorism and ant-Western rhetoric began emanating from the ME and Muslims around the world has our position changed. And… BTW… so it should.
Sep 27th, 2006
wmmbb
Geoff:
Karen Armstrong writes for The Guardian and has a brief entry in Wikipedia.
Sep 27th, 2006
muzzmonster
I’d consider Karen Armstrong a fairly well respected writer on matters of the Abrahamic religions, having written a number of comprehensive and well recieved books.
I first read A History of God back in the 80s before I even knew about Islamism.
I don’t know how far Islamophobia goes back, but anti-Semitism has long been rooted in Christian culture.
Sep 28th, 2006
Evil Pundit
If Karen Armstrong writes for The Guardian, then she must be pretty bad. Certainly, her use of ridiculous pseudo-words like “Islamophobia” is not a good sign.
It seems that there’s quite a bit of Christophobia on this blog. Shame on you, bigots.
Sep 29th, 2006
Rob
Both Christianity and Islam revolve around a personal relationship with God. The sooner everyone matures and ceases to have the need to create some earth-bound deity substitute the better. Who cares what the Pope says? he and the super-Imam or whatever may have no personal faith at all, just leadership and ambition.
Sep 29th, 2006
wmmbb
Evil Pundit’s contradiction appears to leave him “ridiculous”, his word. As the Pope suggests intolerance can take the form of words, as can violence. And yet words are the currency of dialogue, reconciliation, but perhaps not spirituality. Perhaps the logos/mythos divide bedevils the process?
Sep 30th, 2006
Louise
#11 Who cares what the Pope says?
Well, an awful lot of people by my reckoning. For a start, there are 1 billion or so Catholics in the world. Many of them in the West don’t care, it’s true, except of course when something occurs like the recent hullabaloo after his Regensberg address.
And then, it seems, that almost everyone cares what the Pope says. A great many people here have wasted a great deal of time thinking and writing about him, for people who profess not to care what he says.
Sep 30th, 2006
Grant
Democrats Senator Andrew Bartlett says the Sheikh’s views do not reflect those of the broader Muslim community, and should not be used to vilify Muslim Australians.
“I think it is an overreaction, I mean the Mufti isn’t the Pope,” he said.
Comment:
The Pope was vilified by the Muslim press. So is it OK for the Mufti but not for the Pope ?
Is that what you really meant? I don’t think this comment was at all helpful or appropriate particularly from the leader of a party.
Oct 27th, 2006