Some Immigration facts
Amongst all the heat regarding asylum seeker issues, it is often forgotten just how many people some to Australia every year on various visas. The Annual Report of the Immigration Department contains some interesting facts on this matter.
If you look at all of those figures, the number of people who received residency visas – permanent and temporary – in the 2004-05 financial year was close to half a million. Permanent economic entry visas were 77 880 (increased to nearly 100 000 in the subsequent year). In the family stream it was 41 740. Other temporary resident visas (mainly skilled workers) were 93 513, plus 174 787 student visas and 104 605 working holiday visas.
Compared to this figure of nearly 500 000, in the offshore humanitarian category there were just 13 178 people — only around 5½ thousand were actually refugees; the other 7½ thousand were broader humanitarian cases. Even lower still is the number of onshore refugee visas granted – the vast majority of whom had already been here for years on temporary visas – which was 4 601.
To give the full picture, in addition to all those I have mentioned above, the total number of other visitor visas – tourists, short-stay, business, family visitation, hospital and medical – was 3 588 947.
So we have got over four million people coming into Australia each year (some of them people entering more than once). Most of them are short-stay visitor visas, but around half a million of them are various forms of longer stay or permanent residency. It is absurd that we have this enormous focus and moral panic about a tiny number of asylum seekers who come in an unauthorised way, especially when these people immediately declare themselves and seek to be identified and assessed.
This not only creates unreasonable hostility towards asylum seekers, it seriously distorts our public and policy debate about immigration issues. When we have half a million people coming into our country each year on various forms of residency visas from every country on Earth, we should be giving much more attention to our settlement programs, as well as putting more energy into supporting multiculturalism, so it delivers the effective integration which is at its heart.
We should not be diverting attention by creating false impressions of waves of people ‘threatening our borders’. We already have waves of people coming in each year, and we don’t pay enough attention to ensuring we manage that situation properly.
112 Comments, Comment or Ping
red crab
thanks for that andrew there are some good facts there .
it would seem all the fuss is over a few assylem seekers who are found to be boggas and a few who have appeared to abuse the privalage that is given to them.
there is only one point that i would dissagree with you on .
i dont think that multiculturalism is a good thing .
Aug 11th, 2006
Kaye Bernard
Red why do you think multiculturism is not a ‘good thing’?
Aug 11th, 2006
red crab
well thats hard to answer kaye .
i find ppl interesting as individuals in there own rite and there storys.
the thing that desturbed me most was the school my kids went had an ethnic day my kids were left out because there were australian .
i think that multiculturism seperates ppl into there ethnic and cultural groupes where they dont have to be australian if they dont want .
i think that it creates cultural seperation not cultural diversity.
its like someone saying i am a lebonease australin instead an australian lebonease.
as i sead its hard for me to put into words .
Aug 11th, 2006
Lynette2
Red Crab,
I admire your approach to answering Kaye’s question. People who criticise it usually jump in with both arms swinging, but you’ve given a calm, considered response.
When my daughter’s school had their multicultural day, at a school with very few Aussie kids, we had a ball. Initially she felt left out mainly because a t-shirt, shorts and thongs weren’t as exotic as traditional national costumes with full skirts and flounces. We don’t even have a traditional dance, while even the Kiwi kids had the Haka. But we found that without exception the other kids and their families really enjoyed sharing their food, dances, stories and traditions with us and with one another. Oddly enough, the Aussie kids who took to the whole thing with the most enthusiasm were the Aborigines.
I wonder whether we adults too often attribute our own discomfort to our kids as well.
By the way, I suspect that many of those “traditional national constumes” were thrown together the night before and that much of the food came from local take aways.
I don’t know whether it’s my attitude, outlook or what, but I don’t feel threatened by multiculturalism at all. That makes it really hard for me to understand why other people do, though I’m still trying.
Just as you find it hard to express why you don’t like it, I find it hard to express why I do.
Aug 11th, 2006
Lynette2
Andrew the immigration numbers are no surprise but the patterns over time make interesting reading.
The rate of immigration was cut dramatically in 1996/7 and has been gradually increasing ever since. The current levels are as high, if not higher, than they were during the much criticised Whitlam years. Drawing attention to a measly handful of refugees has successfully distracted everyone from immigration levels generally.
I’d be interested to see comparative costings of the old support systems for migrants versus the cost of running detention facilities for a tiny handful of refugees.
Like Chilla Bulbeck says, when you argue with them on their own terms their vulnerabilities become much more apparent.
Aug 11th, 2006
red crab
i dont feel threatened by multiculturalism either lynette2 not at all .
but i look at the world and see ethnic ppl in other countrys that have formed big groupes and started gowing back the the things that they left there old country to escape from.
mabe you are rite we should look at things through kids eyes .
Aug 11th, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
Lynette2
the current migration intake is higher than the Whitlam era if you count the very large jump in temporary residents. These numbers are often left out in considering migration numbers, which is understandable to an extent, but when they are in such numbers and can last quite a long time, I don\\\’t think we should ignore them. They are all people that live and (mostly) work in our communities for years.
Aug 11th, 2006
The Feral Abacus
Andrew
My recollection is that in the past Federal Govts used to do a lot to help prepare new migrants for living in Australia, and that organisations like the Good Neighbour Council were very active in encouraging Australians to make new arrivals welcome. How do current arrangements compare with the practises of the 1960′s and 1970′s?
Aug 11th, 2006
Marilyn Shepherd
They are a big group who tend to clump together, their gardens reflect their “own country”, they eat roughly the same food, wear roughly the same clothes and look with suspicion at the 11% of the population who are not live them.
They are us red crab and we persecuted and tormented every single group of “them” when they got here.
We stole the land, they want to steal the land is the mentality of us.
I love people. Full stop. I don’t care if they are black, blue, green, brindle or pink with purple polka dots (as my nana used to say), if they come from Afghanistan, Iran, England, Iraq or the moon.
They are all just people.
Aug 11th, 2006
red crab
well marilyn my home at times would put the united nations to shame.
but i still think that multiculturalism is not a good consept.
we need to be working towards cultural divesity not seperation.
if you look at whats happening in britain at the moment you will see what multiculturalism can let happen .
Aug 12th, 2006
Lynette2
Red Crab,
I don’t understand the difference between multiculturalism and diversity as you are using the words.
Also, are you worried about our community now, or about how it might be (eg Britain)?
If you’re talking about terrorism in Britain then is it safe to assume it’s not so much multiculturalism that bothers you, as terrorism?
Sorry to pester you. I’m trying to understand.
Aug 12th, 2006
Marilyn Shepherd
What do you want – we all look the same, dress the same, eat only white bread and chops and watch the footy?
I would rather go to a party with persian food and music, or eat a good Italian pizza, or Afghan food with my Afghan friends.
People should never have to leave their culture behind unless it is things like genital mutilation or other crimes.
Now the so-called terror threat in London was supposed to have been reported by a Pakistani man under the gentle care of the ISI in Pakistan who have a habit of nearly killing people while they torture them for evidence.
The Brits knew months ago and didn’t do anything at all until Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan go to hot to handle.
What a sick farce and they have already let one of the so-called confirmed ‘terr’sts” go home.
While the west keep blowing up muslim countries and committing the sorts of massacres we see in Iraq and Afghanistan and Lebanon we are the real terrorists here.
Calling muslims facists is also ridiculous. Facists by definition have no religion at all.
Aug 12th, 2006
Wil B
Fa[s]cists by definition have no religion at all.
Firstly that’s not really true, Hitler had a half-baked mythology while Franco and Mussolini relied on the catholic church, and secondly, this is a new label, we can create a new meaning. Fundamentalists seemed adequate to me, but I guess the US media don’t want that mistaken with their own fundies. Point is, there is a class of deeply mistaken people who think that their religion is supreme, and that their religion condones the murder of hundreds of innocents. Getting into a theological argument with these people isn’t the point, and it’s fine to note that they’re a small minority of muslims, but the left can’t pretend that they’re not actually muslims.
Aug 12th, 2006
Ck
Of course it’s NOT ridiculous.
Any person, of any religion can hold to their faith and still be a facist. Indeed, fundamentalism of any kind has a great deal in common with fascism.
Facism:
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
Aug 12th, 2006
John Tracey
On multi culturalism
Red Crab identified that “Australians” can be left out of concepts of multiculturalism.
This is indeed the case as noone has really defined what Australian culture is other than the food and clothes stereotype. “Australian” has come to mean everyone who does not identify with another culture.
Consider, for example, a Vietnamese family who came to Australia as refugees, settled and now have second and third generations born in this country. The younger generations may not speak vietnamese, or only at home. Consider also me! I am white, of English and Irish stock, in many ways I am an averege Australian. But My grandfather spoke Gaelic and left Ireland to escape war and the persecution of his family in Ireland. He moved to England, his son, my father, moved to Australia. I am the first generation of my family born in this country from a family whose grandparents spoke English as a second language. Why is my ethnicity in some way a different category to Vietnamese? simply because of the colour of my skin?
All “Australians” have a rich cultural and ethnic heritage from our homelands, but for a range of reasons we do not embrace this ethnicity and cling to a notion of Australian that is exclusive to people who are like us. Vietnamese Australians etc. are some other sort of category.
I have written on other threads about the importance of Australia to collectively face the truth of our history as a nation – invasion, genocide and colonisation. As individuals we also need to be aware of our history, how it is that our family ended up in this country. Who are we, as individuals? Where did we come from? How does the experience of migration determine our contemporary existence in this country?.
Multiculturalism is not the dissipation of national identity until we are all English. Multiculturalism is simply the acknowledgement of the truth that unless we are Aboriginal, we have a migrant history, culture and ethnicity that contributes to the multicultural conglomerate.
Aug 12th, 2006
David
I feel threatened by ‘multiculturalism’. It is not something I feel comfortable with, yet feel an immense pressure to conform to the multicultural world view. Non-conformism is often marked with abuse, threats and of course accusations of ‘racism’.
Multiculturalism is about economics, not a better society. Any social benefit is secondary to the almighty dollar. Since Australians are perfectly atomised into consumers, the Government can get away with the radical social change called multiculturalism.
Name a major political party who advocates low immigration. You cannot because there are none. Business calls the shots, business wants more consumers and immigration from anywhere is the answer.
The result is a fragmented society full of alienated individuals. Immigrants are used to further degrade the host culture into a meaningless mass with only neutral values to stand for.
Immigration should only be 20% of the birth rate and no more. Anything more will amount to social instabilty, because the host culture will revolt at a time when they have nothing to lose.
Aug 12th, 2006
Wil B
Multiculturalism is about economics, not a better society. Any social benefit is secondary to the almighty dollar. Since Australians are perfectly atomised into consumers, the Government can get away with the radical social change called multiculturalism.
What on earth are you talking about? You have totally confused two quite separate topics, immigration and multiculturalism. Immigration is certainly driven in part by economic interests, but is about what we do with them when we\’re here. And yeah, you may say your views aren\’t racist, but they\’re getting close. You and your culture don\’t have a god given right to Australia, this place is for all of us. Personally I can see so many ways in which we\’ve benefited from multicultural policy that I find it hard to believe the narrow prejudiced views of some Aussies.
Aug 13th, 2006
red crab
lynette 2
ok il try to explain how i feel about multiculturism
1 john is correct but for one point my fammily has been here for 200 yrs i dont know anything elce exept australia. my family was not big on any traditions they were to busy building a country . i dont have any convict ansestry either
2 i see multiculturism as seperating cultural groupes i.e the veitnameas community the aboriginal comunity the palistinian comunity etc. who all have leaders that communicate to others i.e. the govt reprosenting there comunity
we practace cultural diversaty all the time wih our friends we all get togather and sometime share storys of the past our kids progress family probs.we share each others food and aprecceate each other as indaviduals the thing is the only a few of our friends other than the aboriginal ones have been in austraila less than 30 yrs some less than 12 months.but none of them have become part of there cultural groupe .
i still find it hard to put to words lynette 2
Aug 13th, 2006
Wil B
I guess I’m lucky, I live in Footscray, Melbourne, and see the positive side of multiculturalism every single day. We’ve jsut been shopping at the vietnamese market, Little Saigon, and I picked up some rambutan and fresh lychees. On the way back we went past the buddhist temple, where theres some festival going on, and also the Baptist church, which has a large Sudanese congregation. Last week I got into a fascinating conversation with an ethiopian person about his old country, while eating at his restaurant. There’s no racial crime in footscray, but there’s plenty of divesity and colour and a whole bunch of new shops opening up with the new Sudanese population. The indian students are joining the local cricket team. The old italian fellow next door gave me some valuable pointers about growing tomatoes, as well as generosity and the value of family. It’s all good. I’m not ashamed or an apologist for australian culture, I jsut don’t think it’s some pristine thing that needs to be preserved, it’s tough and robust enough to do fine on its own. I’m far more worried about the pervasive influence of US culture than I am about all the micro-cultures that flourish in my suburb. For example, many of the young ethiopians like to think that they’re from South Central LA and are ‘niggaz’. I think that’s pretty sad.
Aug 13th, 2006
Lynette2
Red Crab,
Aha. Now I think I get you. It’s not migrants that bother you, it’s autonomous and isolated groups who speak for themselves rather than for everybody.
I kind of agree with you there. It would be different if various cultural community leaders stood up and said “people should not be treated this way” rather than “this particular group of people should not be treated this way”.
It’s a good point. I hadn’t thought of that before. Thank you.
Aug 13th, 2006
David
What am I talking about? Multiculturalism is a policy of assimilation for immigration from anywhere. Multiculturalism and Immigration are two words that are one of the same. I hate ‘multiculturalism’, the division, fragmentation and alienation is everywhere. It is driven by interests of a few and is very unpopular.
You say Australia is for everyone. Well in a democracy, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I will reiterate, I hate multiculturalism. Why is my point of view not represented in parliament? Are we just a little democracy? I hate ethnic diversity and I live in Clayton!
I am sick of being conditioned to be vitriolic towards my cultural heritage, yet stupendously respectful towards ‘other’ cultures. People want to come to this country because it is developed, prosperous and peaceful. Anglo Saxon culture is responsible for this: not Ethiopians, Indians or Vietnamese (and every other exotic import you can think of). If you think this is bigoted, then perhaps Australia is not really the place for refugees!
Aug 13th, 2006
muzzmonster
David, I really don’t understand how you feel you are conditioned to be vitriolic towards your cultural heritage (which I can only presume is Anglo-Saxon). I certainly don’t think that acknowledging the mistakes of our past is vitriolic.
I also disagree that assimilation (everyone being the same) is the same as multiculturalism (celebrating the differences between cultures, which includes things like food, clothing and folk dances).
Aug 13th, 2006
red crab
i think thats it lynette2 .
i see in my mind that multiculturism in the future could cause a problem if cultural groupes are aloud to grow to a point that they control whole areas and try to create micro countrys inside australia .
before you say too mutch have a good look at history.its happened many times before in other places .
wil b
that you have described is what i call cultural diversity thats a good thing .
Aug 14th, 2006
Hoy Hoy Hoy
The other day a Chinese Friend who lives in Hong Kong told me he keeps wondering what it is to be a Chinese? After some discussion we decided that a Chinese is someone who identifies with the broad traditions of Chinese Society, understands the Chinese language and thinks of themselves as Chinese. He, by the way, decided that following that definition he felt more Australian than Chinese even though he was ethnically Chinese and lived in HK.
People who are concerned about multi culturalism have a very legitimate worry if multi culturalism becomes a barrier to people being able to identifying themselves as Australian.
My definition of being an Australian is that I accept the ideas of equality, a fair go, a distrust of authority, a willingness to give it a go, a willingness to share with others and the optimistic attitude that “she’ll be right”. Others will have their own set of Australian values and I am happy to accept their interpretation.
However, if you feel you are Australian then the practical outcome should be that you will support and help any others who feel and identify themselves as Australian for whatever reason.
Aug 14th, 2006
Deborah
Wil B,
“Point is, there is a class of deeply mistaken people who think that their religion is supreme, and that their religion condones the murder of hundreds of innocents. Getting into a theological argument with these people isn’t the point,”
- In that sentence, you could also be talking about George Dubya and US fundamental christians, the neocons and the Iraq war. Don’t you see that it is not just muslims who are fanatical religious zealots?
Tony Abbott would also rate as a zealot who wants to hold all of Australia ransom to his catholic views on abortion and stem cell transplant.
Aug 14th, 2006
ken
Yes your dead right Deborah; but I think the actual point he was making was the “condones the murder of hundreds of innocents”. and although while the actions in the middle East by the Coalition of the Willing and more recently – have certainly “killed innocents” even Marilyn wouldn’t say for that reason.
Aug 14th, 2006
Deborah
Hi Ken, what is the legal reason for the war in Iraq then?
No-one believes the WMD theory anymore, many of us didn’t right from the start. If an illegal war is started, by the invasion of a country, for manufactured and false reasons, then there has to be a criminal liability.
Bush certainly has condoned the murder of hundreds of innocents, thousands actually (on both sides) as have the COW partners – JWH has blood on his hands too.
Aug 14th, 2006
ken
I don’t know – I never said thre was a legal reason. Has there ever been a legal reason for any war – its a silly point and just shows how obsessed we have become with tryign to consider so many issues in such a narrow framework.
Anyway I don’t disagree with the point yopu are making – but your missing the point of the guy’s post (my interpreation of ity anyway) – it was that the rationale for the killing is based on religion. I think he’s not right but thast the point he was makning.
Aug 14th, 2006
Lynette2
Would I be right if I said that one thing that unites us as Australians is our negative feelings toward America?
There’s a question for you, Red Crab. We don’t see suburbs of Americans forming autonomous communities within Australia, but we see McDonalds or Ricky Lake any time we have our eyes open. Is it true to say that in ten years time we’re more likely to be celebrating Thanksgiving than facing Mecca? If so, how do we feel about that?
Aug 14th, 2006
muzzmonster
Interesting points Hoy Hoy Hoy.
I wonder how much of the feeling of Australianness is both a respect for our English traditions (even if we don’t really think of it much), yet also a profound independence which often manifests itself desire to beat them in every sporting event possible.
Similarly, those of us who don’t have English heritage must retain some feelings about their (or their parents’ or their grandparents’) country of birth?
Aug 14th, 2006
red crab
i think you are rite unfortunatly lynette2
personaly i think australias should be more worried about america than any other country
because they will steal our identity for a dollar
all we have to do is look at who is running most of our big companys i.e. telstra.
heres another bit of trivia its an american thats in control of the finances for the gaol on christmas island i know this because i have spoken to him .
to quote hoy hoy hoy
People who are concerned about multi culturalism have a very legitimate worry if multi culturalism becomes a barrier to people being able to identifying themselves as Australian.
My definition of being an Australian is that I accept the ideas of equality, a fair go, a distrust of authority, a willingness to give it a go, a willingness to share with others and the optimistic attitude that “she’ll be right”. Others will have their own set of Australian values and I am happy to accept their interpretation.
However, if you feel you are Australian then the practical outcome should be that you will support and help any others who feel and identify themselves as Australian for whatever reason.
Aug 15th, 2006
Wil B
In that sentence, you could also be talking about George Dubya and US fundamental christians, the neocons and the Iraq war. Don’t you see that it is not just muslims who are fanatical religious zealots?
Tony Abbott would also rate as a zealot who wants to hold all of Australia ransom to his catholic views on abortion and stem cell transplant.
While the effect is quite the same, there’s still a world of difference in the fundamental motivation. Bush doesn’t want to kill random civilians and point to the bible to justify his actions. His carelessness and callousness in civilian harm reflect his incompetence and his failings as a christian, they don’t stem from his faith. He doesn’t quote ezekiel 25:17 for example.
Tony Abbott? well he’s just a dick. But again, there’s a world of difference between wanting to ban abortions (even though it will inevitably result in the deaths of women from backyard jobs) and packing yourself full of explosive, going somewhere crowded and killing yourself and a bunch of shoppers. Or stoning to death an adulteress.
I’m really quite a left-liberal sort myself, but people who start to get all moral equivalent about these comparisons I think need to get back to reality. Yes the US war machine is directly responsible for thousands of innocent civilian deaths, the results are almost as bad, but at least they act regretful when they do these things, they’re incidental rather than purposive.
Also, I’ve not really heard of a grand plan to convert the world to christianity, while I have heard that some fundie muslims think that’s the only acceptable future.
Aug 15th, 2006
Deborah
Wil B, you’ve never heard of missionaries? Christians who set about the world to spread the good word far and wide, often doing more harm than good – still happens today. Aboriginal people have had their culture heavily influenced by over zealous missionaries.
Just because the US govt. says they are sorry for the slaughter of thousands of innocents doesn’t make them or their ideology right or just. The US have become a law unto themselves, they listen to no-one and they obey no international laws and conventions. The US believes that they have supreme world power and they wield that power ruthlessly.
Getting real, I’d have to say that many more innocents have been killed by the US war machine than have been killed by fundamental muslims.
Why not try a political approach in the middle east rather than a military one? You never know, it might just work.
Aug 15th, 2006
Ken
Wil B – some just don’t want to hear. Your actually in agremeent weith her – odd isn’t it.
Aug 15th, 2006
Donna
David
Is it really multiculturalism that bothers you, or is it that our population is becoming so large? I ask you this because I think we’ve always been a multicultural society.
Aug 15th, 2006
Deborah
Ken, not odd at all, in agreement on some things, just not the moral right and wrong of one ideology vs another, to me they are both wrong.
Wil B, to me, Israel has slaughtered a thousand innocent people in Lebanon and they get their weapons and funding for this from the US, where is the moral highground in that?
I actually do think that Bush’christian beliefs have played a big part in the ‘war on terror/Islam’:
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329552229-116499,00.html
Bush’s belief in a worldwide Islamist conspiracy is foolish and dangerous
“George Bush sometimes sounds more like the Mahdi, preaching jihad against infidels, than the leader of a western democracy. In his regular radio address to the American people on Saturday he linked the British alleged aircraft plotters with Hizbullah in Lebanon, and these in turn with the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan”
and:
New scrutiny of role of religion in Bush’s policies
The president’s rhetoric worries even some evangelicals
By Jane Lampman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0317/p01s01-uspo.html
Aug 16th, 2006
Deborah
Ken, …and another thing, your snidey asides to others don’t go unnoticed, although they are usually ignored eg #34.
Why not just direct your comments to the people that you may disagree with, instead of sniping from the sidelines, under the pretence of actual commentary.
But hey, I might then engage with you, and you might just have to back up your comments :)
A cowardly way to interact with others!
Aug 16th, 2006
PB
As a Pom that moved to Aus nearly 10 years ago I’m still looking for an exact definition of what being Australian means. I see the word unaustralian bandied about in the media but until someone comes up with what being Australian really means then unaustralian is meaningless. It’s just another piece of US influence (from McCarty’s unamericanism of the 50s), a bit like the free trade agreement and just as useless.
Is an Australian only someone that was born here? Moved here? Indigenous? The culture of the “fair go”? Is it the racist comments I hear from white Australians because I’m a Pom? Anything else? All or none of the above? Just what is Australian exactly? Until that is decided then all other discussions are moot.
Aug 16th, 2006
ken
Deborah – points 26 and 28 both engaged the issue. You eiteghr couldn’t or refuse to see the issue in a way outside a predetermiend view -that fine thats your prerogative. You even assumed and then implied my comment in some way was a comment that sought to infer the war was legal – come again?
So dont get uppity wiht me
Aug 16th, 2006
Deborah
ken, that’s better, just because I don’t agree with something doesn’t mean I refuse or can’t see the other point of view – that is your assumption only.
I actually enjoyed viewing Wil B’s articulate opinion in #32, unlike yours in #26 & 28, which rushed in to defend his ‘point’ as assumed by you and attacking mine, as assumed by you.
“even Marilyn wouldn’t say for that reason.”
- what does that mean, and why have a go at Marilyn there, is it a case of taking every opportunity you can to snipe at someone/ anyone, or just a select few.
“Hi Ken, what is the legal reason for the war in Iraq then?” – was that not respectful and even offering a greeting? Not only was I asking the question, I was also offering the view that the war is not legitimate, therefore all who have died have been murdered and it has been condoned by the COW and THEIR religion.
I will get uppity wid you if you unfairly snipe and snide through a third person just to belittle re #34.
Aug 16th, 2006
Deborah
PB, you’re exactly right. Where is this country UnAustralia, from which UnAustralians hail?
http://www.argusonline.com.au/unoz.htm
on a more serious note:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/hugh-mackay/just-who-is-unaustralian/2005/06/19/1119119722702.html
Aug 16th, 2006
ken
Well he confirmed my assessment in the following post – and If you interpreted thsoe two points, as you have said so above, as supporting his piont of view then I’d suggest a re-read. No personal endorsemtn at all, in fact clear non agreement – show me where.
So If I minsintrpepreetd “Hi Ken, what is the legal reason for the war in Iraq then?” There is no doubt in my mind that implicit in that question is an implication that I hold that view – this is evidcned by the preposition at the ned of the sentence which autyomatically createsa refercne to some preceeding thing – thast what a prepostion does.
Your right about Marilyn (more so as the purveyor of all things evil about the US than personal) – but I accept that – althouhg I could mount the Andrew Johns defence its probably better not to.
Pity no-oen else on this site ever accepts in a similar fashion, as in those that put the slipper into Wendy.
Anyway seeing we aare now so far in breach of the Comments policy its probalby better to ease off before the Senator cans us (me).
Aug 16th, 2006
Deborah
Ken,
I do appreciate and agree with some of Wil B’s opinion of Bush and Abbott in #32 but Wil B and I do have differing opinions on the use of christianity for Bush.
Where I differ, is that I think Bush does point to the bible to justify his killing of innocents.
from Haaretz:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
“Abbas said that at Aqaba, Bush promised to speak with Sharon about the siege on Arafat. He said nobody can speak to or pressure Sharon except the Americans.
According to Abbas, immediately thereafter Bush said: “God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them”
There is also public opinion on the quoting of scripture, the promised land thing, by the evangelists to justify never ending pro Israeli support.
http://www.comeandsee.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=504
I referred to “legal reason” for the war because I wanted to know if you thought there was a valid and legal reason for the war and if so, what it was.
What’s the Andrew Johns defence?
Aug 16th, 2006
Donna
Ken
I certainly have been one of the bloggers having a go at Wendy. I did acknowledge this and apologise for it. But I began ‘putting the slipper in’ because I wasn’t impressed with her disrespectful comments towards Marilyn.
Aug 16th, 2006
ken
Deborah,
I don’t think the two concepts of vaildity and leghality can be considered together. I don’t think any war can be legal. I suppose technically the act of dispatching troops is “legal” in the sense that no doubt some Act gives the PM the authority to do so – however that is only an action that follows the decsiion to go to war, whcih I don’t think should be viewed in a legal framework
Vaild – well thast another thing, what exactkly does valid mean – in my interpreatation means a well founded reason Why do wars occur, why do individuals fight? Any number of reasons – property rights, ego, self aggrandissment, access to resources, racial differecne, self-defence.
Obviously we now know the reasoosn given to justify the removal of Saddam were not valid, although at the time there was a reasoanble case to be made to accept them as valid. So its very hard to say – excpet that there were probalby other reasons.
However if we forget about playing wiht words it would alwasy be preferabel to not go to war.
As for Andrew Johns thats a Sydney football refercven to a player here who got suspended for swearing at a linesman, and his defence was he deserved it becasue of his incompetnece. No real defecen really hecne my comment.
Aug 16th, 2006
Deborah
Thanks Ken, maybe it could be the Marilyn defence re Bush :)
I knew Joey was in trouble but I didn’t know why, is he taking his ball and going to the UK now?
I appreciate your engagement (and no sex even!).
I take your point and will make effort to communicate with people on the bits that I agree with them on, as well as the differences, instead of just assuming that they realise it because I’m not disputing it.
Cheers
Aug 16th, 2006
David
An Australian is someone who has all of these elements: is born in Australia; has an affinity with the land and culture; has nowhere else to go.
That is what makes an Australian.
Spoilt brats who turn on Australia and live abroad are not Australian, they are traitors. People who are born overseas and live in Australia, are expats living in Australia.
Aug 16th, 2006
ken
Deborah
No doubt they did a deal, joey will only get two weeks, as long as he falls on his sword of remorse in the media – whihc he dutifully did last night.
So he can now play in the finals.
Aug 17th, 2006
Geoff
Some Multiculti supporters were telling me we don’t have a culture in Australia, that an “Australian culture” doesn’t exist. We just have many subcultures that make up the Australian culture.
Well I’d like to know when this happened? Was it when the policy of Multiculuralism was introduced? Did the Australian culture I was brought up in suddenly disappear?
Some thoughts on the Australian Culture.
(Note this is not a definitive all encompassing coverage of the issue)
Some will no doubt read this and try to jump in and say that I back the policy of Multiculturalism, because I recognise 2 Australian cultures.. Well I don’t… and that would be disingenuous of them to do so. Mutliculturalism encourages cultural diversity, I prefer encouraging cultural unity. A nation should be united… not divided. Division does not strengthen a society. IMO the policy of mutliculturalism weakes us as a society.
No doubt, when I remark on our “Anglo” roots, and that is inevitable, due to our history, those same people will again jump in and say that proves we have no “Australian” culture… and that it is in fact another distortion of the truth.
One would not say that American culture is English culture, yet the US like Australia had primarily British heritage as it roots.
America is not that much older than Australia either so that old flawed argument about us being a young country and having no culture… also holds no water.
In fact, no country in the “Anglosphere” has an identical culture. (For those that don’t know, the Anglosphere is a group of English-speaking nations which share historical, political, and cultural characteristics rooted in or attributed to the historical experience of the British people. Primarily; Australia, Britain, Canada, the United States, India, New Zealand, and South Africa.)
Is Australian culture Indian? Canadian? American? South African? etc…. The answer is clearly no.
Yet we all share similarities and people from these cultures would find it easier to “fit in” to each others societies because of that sharing..
This brings us to the oft avoided… what is culture?
For the purpose of this piece, I consider the following dictionary definitions appropriate.
QUOTE
cul·ture ( P ) Pronunciation Key (klchr)
n.
a. The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.
b. These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture; Japanese culture; the culture of poverty.
c. These patterns, traits, and products considered with respect to a particular category, such as a field, subject, or mode of expression: religious culture in the Middle Ages; musical culture; oral culture.
d. The predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization.
Australian culture then would be those aspects and characteristics that have developed on the Australian continent and those in a form readily distinguishable from other National cultures. It would also therefore be the dominant culture of Australia and also be recognised in various “Australian” stereotypes.
I personally look at Australia as being Bi-Cultural… (quick someone pick Brian up… on 2nd thoughts… don’t bother).
We have Australia’s “Indigenous” culture and Australia’s “Western” culture.
Both are recognised by the majority of Australians as being… Australian.
Recognition of this fact …was on display to the world at the 2004 Sydney Olympic’s, opening and closing ceremonies.
The dominant culture though, the one seen and recognised world wide as being our national identity would be the Australian “Western” Culture.
Australia’s national culture has obviously developed over time… and continues to develop as all cultures do. Australia’s Indigenous culture comes primarily from the Aborigines and it’s Western culture primarily from the British. Both cultures have over the last 200 years impacted on and shaped each other. Our history cannot be ignored when considering our culture, because history is integral to culture. Also, one shouldn’t forget the all too obvious, Australia’s physical lanscape and climate, both… have also impacted on our nation’s cultural development.
During its formative years, “Australia” was basically a penal colony for British Convicts. These Convicts and many of those that came with them, became the first urban Australians and they subsequently laid today’s cultural foundations. They shaped Australia’s cultural evolution.
For those suffering Anglophobia, and or cultural cringe, there is a stigma attached to our history, one which seems to inspire an obsession with foreign cultures and multiculturalism. They even attempt to deny the past, some high-moral-grounders, and cultural/social snobs, seeing it as a cultural “stain.”
In fact our ‘umble beginnings, IMO, have had a bigger impact on our culture than many recognise or realise.
The Australian culture has historically been one, forged by the hardships face by the early settlers and later on the stoic determination and bonding of the Australian soldiers. “Mateship,” or loyal fraternity, has been a central tenet in our society. Traditionally, Australians have viewed themselves as having an egalitarian society, our obsession with the “fair go” is a direct reaction to the treatment handed out to our convict founders, by their “motherland.”
The oft cited “tall poppy syndrome” and our disdain for the pompous, egotistical and authoritarian… is also a throwback to our past. Ever wonder why Australians nearly always barrack for the under-dog and not the most favoured?
To some people, the land Downunder, seems indeed to have things completely upside-down. Australians being Australians, aren’t usually aware of the achievements of their academics…. yet they will recognise; sportsmen, dead horses and bushrangers.
They favour humility and show disdain for braggards, here they favour the “quiet achiever”…
Australians aren’t that big on ostentatious displays of patriotism, it’s usually considered embarassing. They forget the words of their national anthem….. yet it would be wrong to say they are not patriotic.
If they like you, they won’t give you compliments. Instead, they will call you names, (sometimes derogatory) and laugh at you whenever you do or say something stupid. If you have red hair, they might cal you “Bluey.” If you are tall, you might be called “Shorty.” If you are quiet, you might actually be “Rowdy.”
These are just a few things that people from other cultures find odd and perplexing, but to Australians they are completely understandable. Even to those few Australians, that like to distance themselves from their fellow Australians.
Language is one of the most recognisable cultural traits of Australians. No one here would mistake an Indian accent for an Australian accent or an American accent. In fact when “Mad Max” was made it had to be dubbed for American release, apparently they found it too hard to understand the Australian English.
Not only do Australians speak with an accent readily distinguishable from those not from Australia (even if they are unaware of it), they also have their own dialect/slang – STRINE.
(STRINE: The term derives from a phonetic rendition of the pronunciation of the word “Australian” in an exaggerated Australian accent. It was the subject of humorous columns published in the Sydney Morning Herald from the mid sixties.Subsequently the term is sometimes used as a synonym for Australian English, usually pejoratively.)
Some examples;
(Most adult Australians probably use or recognise these)
QUOTE
Argue the toss disagree; dispute a decision.
Arvo afternoon
Barbie barbecue
Be with you in a tick attend to you shortly, in a moment, without delay.
Chokkie chocolate
Chook a chicken
Chuck a sickie take the day off from work when you’re well
Digger an Australian soldier
Dinkum, fair dinkum true, real, genuine e.g. I’m a dinkum Aussie; is she/he fair dinkum?
Galah fool
Give it a burl try it, have a go
Jackaroo a male station hand , an Australian cowboy (a station is a big farm or grazing property)
Joey baby kangaroo
Lend of, to have a to take advantage of somebody’s gullibility, to have someone on
Lizard drinking, flat out like a very busy
Mate buddy, friend
No-hoper somebody who’ll never do well
Not the full quid not bright intellectually
No worries Expression of forgiveness or reassurance (usually the response of someone who can’t see the implications of a situtation)
Ocker an unsophisticated person; an Australian
Pash a long passionate kiss
Pav Pavlova, Australian dessert using meringue, cream and fruit
Piker Someone who doesn’t have a go at things, cowardly
Stickybeak nosy person
Strewth exclamation, mild oath
Walkabout gone on a trip or unable to be found
Yobbo an uncouth person
Someone mentioned that they would start discussing culture by ” looking at scientists, academics, politicians, or writers”… a typical yet flawed ande somewhat elitist attitude. But one that does provided some cultural benchmarks. Here then is a brief look at “The Arts” and more… in Australian culture…
Art.
Australia’s contemporary arts are as unique and diverse as the society and continent they come from. Since the early 1970s, Aboriginal artists have developed new modes of expression that have brought their art and culture to international attention. The transfer of Dreaming designs from sand paintings to boards and canvases by Pintupi elders in the central desert community of Papunya in 1971 was just one of many artistic initiatives that have created powerful new connections between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians. Artists such as Albert Namitjira and others have also created art that remains accaimed today.
Artists like; Namatjira, Nolan, Boyd, McCubbin, Done and others have flown the flag for Australia around the world. Oh and let’s not forget Pro Hart whom finally may be getting the recognition he so rightly deserves. (After being shunned by the cultural elites).
Performing Arts.
Australia’s performing arts are full of energy, originality and wit. Indigenous companies like Bangarra Dance Theatre and the Aboriginal and Islander Dance Theatre are acclaimed around the world for innovative, contemporary work that draws on a deep well of traditional ceremony and performance, along with talented individual artists such as; Choreographer Stephen Page works both with traditional Aboriginal communities and the Australian Ballet; actor Deborah Mailman has won international acclaim for her stage and film performances; and Christine Anu has incorporated Torres Strait Islander traditions into her music and dance, as well as starring in commercial music theatre productions.
Major companies such as the Australian Ballet and Sydney Dance Company tour regularly, with a diverse repertoire of Australian and international work. Australian choreographers and dancers such as; graeme Murphy, Lucy Guerin and Gideon Obarzanek produce cutting-edge work that is finding new audiences everywhere.
Music
Australian musicians have been feted the world over with virtuosos such as John Williamson leading the way. The Australian Chamber Orchestra has been acclaimed as the best such orchestra in the world and every State capital city has its own professional symphony orchestra. Artists such as violinist Richard Tognetti, pianists Roger Woodward and Geoffrey Tozer and conductor Simone Young are familiar faces in the world’s concert halls.
Australia’s symphony orchestras have carved out a central role in Australia’s cultural history. Other organisations such as Musica Viva promote a wide range of classical and serious contemporary music events.
Percy Grainger, Larry Sitsky, Peter Sculthorpe, Richard Meale and Ross Edwards are just some of the Australian composers who have made their mark internationally.
Opera Australia, the national company, is the third busiest opera company in the world and has as its home the spectacular Sydney Opera House. The legacy of operatic legends such as Dame Nellie Melba and Dame Joan Sutherland has been handed down to stars such as Deborah Riedel, Lisa Gasteen and Yvonne Kenny.
Literature.
Australian literature is one of the most vital branches of contemporary English language writing. Australian writers make a central contribution to the understanding and definition of Australian culture.
Since Patrick White won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1973, Australians have won many international awards, among them novelists Thomas Keneally and Peter Carey (the prestigious Booker Prize) and poet Les Murray (the Petrarch Prize). Helen Garner, David Malouf, Elizabeth Jolley, Archie Weller and Tim Winton are among other Australian prize-winning prose writers.
Leading poets of past and present include A.B. (‘Banjo’) Paterson, A.D. Hope, Judith Wright, Bruce Dawe and Geoff Page.
International bestsellers include Morris West, Colleen McCullough and Bryce Courtenay are just a few of the writers who have established international reputations over the last 20 years.
Writers like Oodgeroo Noonuccal and Sally Morgan have brought experiences of Aboriginal people into the minds of non-Indigenous Australians.
Cinema
Australians made the world’s first feature film. Since then, the highest industry accolades, such as Academy Awards and nominations, have been won by Australian films and actors in increasing numbers since the 1940s. More recently, Academy Awards were won by The Piano (1993), Priscilla, Queen of the Desert (1994), Babe (1995) and Shine (1996).
Film-makers such as Peter Weir and Bruce Beresford, actors such as Geoffrey Rush, Nicole Kidman, Mel Gibson, Judy Davis and Cate Blanchett, and cinematographers such as Dean Semmler, among many others, are now major figures in the global film community.
From the cramped, modest studios used in the 1970s and ’80s, Australia now boasts a number of fine studio complexes. American studio films, such as Mission: Impossible II (2000), and the larger Australian productions are now able to use state-of-the-art local facilities. These days the world wide film industry comes to Australia for expertise and talent.
The recent hit “Wolf Creek” is unmistakably Australian. No one would ever mistake it for taking place anywhere else in the world.
Architecture.
I’m not right up on this these days but I do recall that most of our early major architecture was basically British in nature. Francis Greenway (Architect-Forger-Architect) was Australia’s first major Architect. Todays comtemporary architecture has a global feel to it. Throughout the world, architecture is influenced by designers and techniques from all countries. The Sydney Opera House, an Australian architectural icon, was designed by an overseas architect. Bradfield’s Sydney Harbour Bridge is similar to some bridges found in Britain, only it was built on a much grander scale.
One architectuarl design I’m certain we can lay claim to… influence almost exclusively by the environment and climate for which it was designed and built was the “Queenslander.” The term not only is recognisable for a particular style of residential property but also for a style of Australian architecture.
Queenslander (or Old Queenslander) architecture is an architectural style common throughout Queensland. Odd that. That would make it Australian. It is also found in the northern parts of New South Wales. The style was common from the 1840s through to the 1960s and used mainly for residential construction, although some commercial edifices such as hotels were also built in this style.
Queenslander buildings are identifiable by large verandahs and large double doors which open onto these verandahs, stumps rising the house above ground level (particularly in older houses), metal roofs typically of corrugated design and are always constructed of mostly wood. In the days before air-conditioning, it was designed to increase air-flow throughout the house by way of large doors and windows, which lined up internally. This is so that the air literally passes through the house, rather than entering through one window and stagnating in the room. Roofs are generally made of corrugated tin or iron, and external walls are sided with timber, often painted in mild pastel colours. Raising the house on stumps meant the under floor area could be used for an old form of refrigeration. A net would hang from under the house, away from the sun, drenched in water. Meats and milk could be stored there for short periods of time (up to a day or two) and kept relatively cool. Floors are generally wooden throughout the house, as is the rest of the construction. Windows are often louvred (to allow for air circulation during Queensland’s frequent rainstorms), frosted (to diffuse and soften the harsh tropical sunlight), or both. Commercial buildings and housesthat were built by wealthier people, often featured elaborate wrought iron ornamentation such as balustrades.
Typically, this design is most suited to the sub-tropical climate of Queensland, an area with average temperatures in the range of 23-27 degrees Celsius (though much hotter in summer). Community awareness of urban heritage has seen local governments implement conservation measures to protect the unique ‘tin and timber’ character of neighbourhoods and towns dominated by Queenslander architecture. While master-planned housing estates are indistinguishable from those in other states, many custom-built homes are designed in a more modern version of the Queenslander style, particularly holiday houses in coastal areas. The style has again in NSW recently had a revival of sorts with various designs popping up in the more expensive end of the redidential/rural/semi-rural market.
The Inventive Aussie…
Necessity they say is the Mother of Invention and Australians do strike many firsts when it comes to Invention, here are but a few:
QUOTE
1838 Pre-paid postage – Colonial Postmaster-General of New South Wales, James Raymond introduced the world’s first pre-paid postal system.
1843 Grain stripper – John Ridley and John Bull of South Australia developed the world’s first grain stripper that cut the crop then removed and placed the grain into bins.
1856 Refrigerator – Using the principal of vapour compression, James Harrison produced the world’s first practical refrigerator. He was commissioned by a brewery to build a machine that cooled beer.
1858 Football – In 1858 Tom Will and Henry Harrison wrote the first ten rules of Football, thus becoming the first people in the world to codify a kicking-ball game. These rules predate those of Rugby, Soccer and Gridiron. Football may have been inspired by the Aboriginal jumping/kicking game of Marn Grook.
1874 The underwater torpedo – Invented by Louis Brennan, the torpedo had two propellers, rotated by wires which were attached to winding engines on the shore station. By varying the speed at which the two wires were extracted, the torpedo could be steered to the left or right by an operator on the shore.
1876 Stump jump plough- Robert and Clarence Bowyer Smith developed a plough which could jump over stumps and stones, enabling newly-cleared land to be cultivated.
1879 Refrigeration – Credited with the manufacture of the first artificial ice, Eugene Nicolle and Thomas Sutcliffe Mort developed shipboard refrigeration that resulted in the export of meat from Australia to Great Britain.
1889 Electric Drill – Arthur James Arnot, patented the world’s first electric drill on 20 August 1889 while he was an employee of the Union Electric Company in Melbourne. He designed it primarily to drill rock and to dig coal.
1894 First powered flight – Perhaps inspired by the boomerang, Lawrence Hargrave discovered that curved surfaces lift more than flat ones. He subsequently built the world’s first box-kite, hitched four together, added an engine and flew five metres.
Hargrave corresponded freely with other aviation pioneers, including the Wright Brothers. But unlike the Americans who monopolised their ideas, Hargrave never patented his. Because it promised public access, Hargrave left all his research to the Munich Museum.
Had Hargrave gained local support to further develop his ideas and not been so generous in sharing his ideas with other aviation pioneers, he probably would have been the first person in the world to achieve sustained and controlled powered flight.
1897 Differential gears – David Shearer of South Australia built a steam car with a differential inside left rear wheel hub.
1903 Froth flotation process- The process of separating minerals from rock by flotation was developed by Charles Potter and Guillaume Delprat of New South Wales.
1906 Feature film – The world’s first feature length film, The Story of the Kelly Gang, was a little over an hour long.
1906 Surf life-saving reel – The first surf life-saving reel in the world was demonstrated at Bondi Beach on 23 December 1906 by its designer Lester Ormsby.
1910 Humespun process -The Humespun process was developed by Walter Hume of Humes Ltd for making concrete pipes of high strength and low permeability. The process revolutionised pipe manufacture in 1910 and has since been used around the world.
1912 The tank – A South Australian named Lance de Mole submitted a proposal, to the British War Office, for a ‘chain-rail vehicle which could be easily steered and carry heavy loads over rough ground and trenches’. The British war office liked the idea but then developed the tank themselves without paying royalties.
1913 Automatic totalisator -The world’s first automatic totalisator for calculating horse-racing bets was made by Sir George Julius.
1917 Aspro – A pain reliever based on aspirin was developed in Melbourne by George Nicholas. By 1940 it had become the world’s most widely used headache and pain treatment.
1922 Vegemite – One of the world’s richest sources of vitamin B, vegemite was invented by Dr. Cyril P. Callister. It is made by the autolysis of expired brewer’s yeast: a process where the yeast’s own enzymes break it down.
1928 Flying Doctor Service – Reverend John Flynn founded the world’s first Aerial Medical Service in 1928.
1934 Ute- The utility vehicle, with a front like a car and a rear like a truck was designed by Lewis Brandt at the Ford Motor Company in Geelong, Victoria.
1940 Zinc Cream – This white sun block made from zinc oxide was developed by the Fauldings pharmaceutical company.
1942 Transverse folding stroller – Designed by Harold Cornish, the sturdy, lightweight design of his Stoway Strollers made life easier for many parents using public transport as it could be folded and placed under a tram seat.
1944 Antibiotic penicillin- Produced by Howard Florey with help from a Pommie named Ernst Chain.
1945 The Hills Hoist – A rotary clothes line with a winding mechanism allowing the frame to be lowered and raised with ease. Invented by Lance Hill.
1952 Victor mower – by Mervyn Victor Richardson, the two-stroke petrol lawn mower with rotary blades revolutionised mowing world wide.
1952 Atomic absorption spectrophotometer -Atomic absorption spectrophotometer is a complex analytical instrument incorporating micro-computer electronics and precision optics and mechanics, used in chemical analysis to determine low concentrations of metals in a wide variety of substances. It was first developed by Sir Alan Walsh of the CSIRO.
1953 Solar hot water – Developed by R N Morse at the CSIRO
1957 Flame ionisation detector -The flame ionisation detector is one of the most accurate instruments ever developed for the detection of emissions. It was invented by Ian McWilliam. The instrument, which can measure one part in 10 million, has been used in chemical analysis in the petrochemical industry, medical and biochemical research, and in the monitoring of the environment.
1957 Trousers with a permeant crease – The process for producing permanently creased fabric was invented by Dr Arthur Farnworth of the CSIRO.
1958 Black box flight recorder – The ‘black box’ voice and instrument data recorder was invented by Dr David Warren in Melbourne.
1961 Ultrasound – David Robinson and George Kossoff’s work at the Australian Department of Health, resulted in the first commercially practical water path ultrasonic scanner in 1961.
1965 Inflatable escape slide – The inflatable aircraft escape slide which doubles as a raft was invented by Jack Grant of Qantas.
1965 Wine cask -Invented by Thomas Angrove, the wine cask is a cardboard box housing a plastic container which collapses as the wine is drawn off, thus preventing contact with air.
1970 Variable rack and pinion steering – The variable ratio rack and pinion steering in motor vehicles was invented by Australian engineer, Arthur Bishop.
1972 Orbital internal combustion engine – The orbital combustion process engine was invented by engineer Ralph Sarich of Perth, Western Australia.
1972- Instream analysis – To speed-up analysis of metals during the recovery process, which used to take up to 24 hours, Amdel Limited developed an on-the-spot analysis equipment called the In-Stream Analysis System, for the processing of copper, zinc, lead and platinum – and the washing of coal. This computerised system allowed continuous analysis of key metals and meant greater productivity for the mineral industry worldwide.
1978 Plastic injection moulding software -Engineers at Moldflow Pty Ltd revolutionised the plastic injection process with a new computer aided engineering software, that simulated the injection moulding process and offered a design strategy to evaluate, refine and optimise successive simulations. The technique has been used widely in the automotive, whitegoods, computer, packaging, communications, aeronautical and photographic industries.
1979 Race-cam – Race Cam was developed by Geoff Healey, an engineer with Australian Television Network Seven in Sydney. The tiny lightweight camera is used in sports broadcasts and provides viewers with spectacular views of events such as motor racing, which are impossible with conventional cameras
1979 Bionic ear – The cochlear implant was invented by Professor Graeme Clark of the University of Melbourne.
1982 The dual flush toilet – As dunnies have a celebrated status in Australia, it is apt that Australia has taken a central role in their evolution. In 1982, the dual flush toilet was responsible for savings in excess of 32000 litres of water per household a year. Pretty important in the world’s dries inhabited continent.
1980 Wave-piercing catamarans – The high speed catamarans were developed by Phillip Hercus and Robert Clifford of Incat in Tasmania.
1983 Winged Keel – Ben Lexen designed a winged keel that helped Australia II end the American’s 132 ownership of the America’s cup. The keel gave the yacht better steering and manoeuvrability in heavy winds.
1984 Baby Safety Capsule – Babies in a car crash used to bounce around like a soccer ball. In 1984, for the first time babies had a harness for their safe transportation in cars.
1986 Gene shears – The discovery of gene shears was made by CSIRO scientists, Wayne Gerlach and Jim Haseloff.
1992 Multi-focal contact lens- The world’s first multi-focal contact lens was invented by optical research scientist, Stephen Newman in Queensland.
1992 Supersonic combustion – The University of Queensland demonstrated the world’s first supersonic combustion in an atmospheric flight test at Woomera on July 30, 2002. The craft reached speeds of more than Mach 8, or 8 times the speed of sound.
1993 Scramjet – The University of Queensland reported for the first time the development of a scramjet that achieved more thrust than drag.
1995 EXELGRAM – The world’s most sophisticated optical anti-counterfeiting technology was developed by the CSIRO.
1995 – Jindalee Radar System – The United States of America spent $11 billion developing an aeroplane that could not be detected by radar. Scientists at the CSIRO then concluded that if the plane could not be detected, perhaps the turbulance it makes passing through air could be. $1.5 million later, the Jindalee Radar system had transformed the stealth bomber into nothing more than an unusual looking aircraft.
Sport as a Cultural identifier.
I previously mentioned the Olympics. Considering it’s megre population Australia and Australians have excelled at sports. Sport has been a central part of the Australian experience since the country was first colonised. More than the Arts and other “high – culture” endevours Sport is a major part of the Australians ethos. Sport is culture, and nowhere more so than in Australia
The following from the SMH…
QUOTE
Sport is culture, and nowhere more so than in Australia
Footy, racing and the arts can occupy the same field, despite recent claims to the contrary, writes Richard Cashman.
In a parting shot, the retiring chief conductor and artistic director of the Sydney Symphony Orchestra, Edo de Waart, reiterated a time-worn furphy that sport and the arts compete for public attention in Australia, and that the popularity of sport is detrimental to the arts. He called for greater federal funding of the arts. Such thinking perpetuates the myth that sport and the arts exist as separate cultural ghettos, whereas they overlap at many points.
Sport and play, according to the Danish scholar Sfren Damkjr, are sensuous forms related to art. The historian Manning Clark, for instance, regarded Australian football as the ballet of the working class.
Many Australian artists have been intrigued by the rich and vibrant culture that is Australian sport. S.T. Gill depicted a boxing contest on the Victorian goldfields, Russell Drysdale captured two laconic bush cricketers, Arthur Streeton painted an Australian football match, Banjo Paterson was a punter-poet who was a keen student of the turf, Max Dupain photographed Australia’s unique beach culture and playwright David Williamson wrote The Club, a classic play based on the Collingwood Football Club.
The Melbourne Cup, for instance, is more than a horse race. It is a theatrical occasion involving play and display. It is an occasion for celebration and even excess; it is a gambling spectacle that incorporates the Australian myth of egalitarianism; it is a national festival that is idiosyncratically Australian.
Sport has long played an important social and cultural role in Australia, providing a form of social cement which binds communities and creates broader imagined communities.
Sport has helped promote our symbols, emblems and colours, based on Australian flora and fauna, and has contributed to a burgeoning national consciousness.
Sport played a role in the coming of Federation and in the process of nation-making after 1901.
Many who subscribe to the sports versus arts dichotomy contend that sport, unlike the arts, contributes nothing worthwhile to Australian culture, that sport is momentary and ephemeral whereas the arts are worthwhile and enduring.
However, sport has enriched the Australian language and added to its humour. It has developed a rich celebrity culture as well as revered sites and traditions. Australian sporting knowledge and expertise, coaches, horses and a host of other products are earning an increasing amount of export dollars for the country.
De Waart’s attack on sport is counter-productive. It will only perpetuate the view that the arts are the monopoly of a privileged minority, the well-educated and the affluent.
Going to the Federal Government with cap in hand is not the solution. Those engaged in the arts should take a leaf out of the book of the sports promoters, to work out alternative ways of marketing the arts and tapping into wider audiences in an age of new media, globalisation and changing demographics.
There is also a need in the arts community for serious analysis of the factors that inhibit the partial acceptance of the arts in the public. Greater public support will translate into increased federal funding.
The advance of the arts should not be linked to any challenge of sport’s sway – they can go hand in hand. The Opening Ceremony of the 2000 Olympics was an artistic and sporting achievement which drew on the talents of organisers Ric Birch and David Atkins, theatre director Richard Wherrett, choreographer Meryl Tankard and many others. The Sydney Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Simone Young, also featured. The Olympics also spawned a clever satire, The Games, beforehand, and the popular comedy The Dream during the Games.
David Headon, in The Best Ever Sports History Writing, argued that the view that sport is not culture, or at best low culture, should be consigned to the dustbin of cultural cringe history. Sport in Australia just might be more deeply and meaningfully cultural than in any other country.
Richard Cashman is an associate professor in history at the University of NSW. His most recent book is Sport in the National Imagination (Walla Walla Press).
Remember the America’s Cup in 1983?
What other country has had their Prime Minister say; “I tell you what, any boss who sacks anyone for not turning up today is a bum”.
What other country has as it’s Prime Minister a die-hard Cricket tragic?
Here are some quotes from some well known identities…
QUOTE
“I think you are maybe the most sporting country in the world”
Olympic President, Juan Antoino Samaranch, Sunday Telegraph, 16 January 1999
QUOTE
“At the time of writing, Australia (with a population of eighteen million, remember) are world cricket champions, world Rugby Champions, world tennis champions, work netball champions, world woman’s hockey champions, and world men and women surfing champions. Further, on per capita basis, Australia was by far the most outstanding performer at the 1996 Olympic Games.”
Phillip Knightley, Australia: A Biography of a Nation, 2000
QUOTE
“Australia pretty generally beats most people at most things. Truly never has there been a more sporting nation. ”
Bill Bryson, Down Under, 2000
QUOTE
“The idea of Australia holding an official inquiry into the country’s performance at the Munich Olympics is deplorable and pathetic. It is not for a government to worry about how many medals are won – this is taking sport far too seriously”
Prince Philip, The Duke of Eninburgh, 1976
QUOTE
“Failure hurts Australians particularly hard because they take sport so seriously. To Australians, sport is not just something they play in their spare time, but it is the medium through which they have to prove themselves to the rest of the world. As DH Lawrence observed “Australians play sport as though their lives depended on it”
Jonathan King, Waltzing Materialism, 1976
It has been said that even though Australian “cultural” achievements are recognised world wide, in areas that are considered “high – culture”; film, music, painting, theatre, dance, literature and crafts – that it is difficult to discern much about Australian culture by just examining them.
That traditional “high – culture” gains little attention from much of the population, in contrast to popular culture is no surprise in Australia. “High – culture” still thrives nevertheless, with many excellent galleries (even in surprisingly small towns); a rich tradition in ballet, enlivened by the legacy of Dame Margot Fonteyn and Sir Robert Helpmann; a strong national opera company based in Sydney; and good symphony orchestras in all capital cities, particularly the Melbourne and Sydney symphony orchestras.
As the Australian landscape is defined not by it’s small mountains, but by the vast “sweeping” barren plains, Australian culture is probably best defined by looking at the less prominent, by considering it’s more subtle and pervasive aspects. Perhaps this is why so many people consider Australia culture-less… a case of not being able to see the forest for the gum-trees.
Oh dear… all that and I have’t really touched on Religion and Secularism.
Soooo just briefly…
Religion in Australia.
Australia is predominantly Christian, although we live in a secularised society.
(There is no state religion, the establishment of which is prohibited by the
Constitution.)
Constitutional Status
Section 116 of the 1900 Act to constitute the Commonwealth of Australia (Australian Constitution) provides that:
QUOTE
The Commonwealth of Australia shall not make any law establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.
Prior to European settlement in 1788 there was limited contact with Indigenous Australians from people of various faiths. These contacts were with explorers, fishermen and survivors of the numerous shipwrecks. There has been countless artifacts retrieved from these contacts, although there is no record of this influencing the religion of Indigenous Australians. At the time of European settlement, the Indigenous Australians had their own religious traditions of the Dreamtime. and ritual systems, with an emphasis on life transitions such as puberty and death. Christianity was introduced with European settlement of Australia from 1788, denominations represented were predominantly Roman Catholic and Anglican..
During the 1800s, European settlers brought their traditional churches to Australia. These included the mores and beliefs had quite an impact on our culture.
The first census in 1911 showed 96 percent identified themselves as Christian.
The 2001 census identified that 68% of Australians call themselves Christian: 27% identifying themselves as Roman Catholic and 21% as Anglican. Five per cent of Australians identify themselves as followers of non-Christian religions, and 16% categorised as having “No Religion”; 12% declined to answer or did not give a response adequate for interpretation. As in many Western countries, the level of active participation in church worship is much lower than this; weekly attendance at church services is about 1.5 million, about 7.5% of the population.[2]
It seems we as an Australian society may consider “organised religion” or Church-going as unnecessary to our faith.
As I have said before…
We want others to join us as Australians and change with us… not force change upon us, or be separate from us.
Various links with thoughts on our CULTURE…
http://home.alphalink.com.au/~eureka/cult.htm
http://www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au/
http://www.convictcreations.com/culture/index.htm
http://www.csu.edu.au/australia/culture.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Australian_culture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Australia
http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/bev2000/strine.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/civics/globalcitizens/ozstrine.htm
http://www.whitehat.com.au/Australia/Inven…nventionsA.html
http://www.convictcreations.com/culture/inventions.htm
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/04/…l?from=storyrhs
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:Gtabcp…en&ct=clnk&cd=8
http://www.artcyclopedia.com/nationalities/Australian.html
Aug 17th, 2006
Geoff
Sorry about that.
but I find it funny that something that doesn’t exist takes up so much space.
Aug 17th, 2006
People Against Live Exports
Thanks! Geoff.
Aug 18th, 2006
Geoff
Multiculturalism is not about Assimilation or Integration. Policies we have already had in place. It is a policy that allows migrants to continue their lifestyle/culture here in Australia.
Aug 18th, 2006
red
thank you geoff that peice should be read in every school in the country
bloody well done
gd onya mate.
id like to keep a copy if its ok with you and use it.
Aug 18th, 2006
red
sorry geoff to show some school kids i know.
Aug 18th, 2006
Geoff
OK by me but a lot of the info in it is already on the Net.
see Links.
Aug 18th, 2006
The Cunning Little Vixen
Geoff: You have transgressed – greviously! Leos Janacek is next to Godliness in the Abacus household. Great offence has been taken at your ommission of Charles Mackerras from your list of notable Australians. Please explain. You must make ammends – urgently!
Aug 18th, 2006
Marilyn Shepherd
I reckon after places like My Lai, Haditha and others all over the world, the dozens of deaths in custody in Abu Ghraib and Bagram airbase not to mention the deliberate murder of women and children at “check points” by the US and the coalition of morons and cowards it is pretty hard to say that the US doesn’t deliberately kill civilians.
In Qana, Bint Jbail and civilians fleeing from the terror of bombs from 35,000 by the Israeli’s – 150 such cases to date being investigated – it is pretty hard to claim that Israel doesn’t deliberately kill civilians.
David get over the multicultural thing because unless we purge the nation of all but the aborigines it is here to stay. Why be scared of it, it can’t hurt you.
Aug 19th, 2006
Geoff
I have no idea how your first para comes into this topic Marilyn. But could you please post the proof you have about US soldiers deliberately killing women and children at \”check points\”. Prefereably on an appropriate topic.
I also think your \”comment\” re Israel is also a very long bow to include here. Not to mention provocative and biased.
As for you final sentence well at least you made it on topic. Even though the truth about that too is dubious. \”Why be scared of it it can\’t hurt you\”….tell that to the innocent people killed or maimed by so-called British citizens who wouldn\’t be there except for their non-discriminatory, multicultural immigration policies.
Aug 19th, 2006
Deborah
It might have been a bit off topic, but it was being discussed long before your posts Geoff.
Aug 19th, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
I’m not to going to go over the same ‘debates’ that have happened on this blog before about multiculturalism.
Suffice to say that one of the main points of this post is to emphasise that having half a million people coming to Australia on various types of residency visas in a year makes it fanciful to suggest that any type of policy of monoculturalism is workable, even were one to believe it is desirable.
Mutliculturalism is inevitable – the key challenge is to make it work effectively to the benefit of everyone, which is why a policy of positive reinforcement is essential to make sure that the goal of society wide integration that is at the heart of multiculturalism is achieved.
Trying to enforce monoculturalism just guarantees alienation, division and antagonism. Personally, I think we’re better off without that in Australia.
Aug 19th, 2006
Geoff
Well here in NSW we already have alienation, division and antagonism, more than we had under Integration and Assimilation Andrew.
Multicuturalism is not integration, why don’t you and the Democrats propose we go back to integration, if you believe that’s what is necessary?
You’ve also created laws to enforce Multiculturalism and wasted billions of tax payers dollars to fund and prop it up.
Your arguments don’t hold water.
Aug 19th, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
I don’t see investing money in maximising social integration as a waste. We should be spending more money on settlement services and improving awareness. If we are going to bring in half a million permanent and temporary migrants into Australia each year to help maintain our national prosperity and dynamism, we should be willing to invest a bit to make sure that works to best effect for everybody.
Multiculturalism is the only way to achieve genuine, society wide integration. The divisive legacy of assimilation will take a while to overcome, and it will continue to be felt if we turn backwards to it – even more than before given that we are (quite wisely) engaging more than ever with the rest of the world.
Inviting half a millon people here each year from all over the world and then trying to expect them all to retrofit into a stagnant monoculture doesn’t make much sense.
The main shortcoming of multiculturalism is that none of the older and newer cultures and identities that continue to intermingle and integrate in Australia come to grips in any meaningful way with the Indigenous cultures and perspectives.
Noel Pearson touched on this in an article a little while ago, and it’s something that updated and enhanced multiculturalism will need to address – otherwise its central tenet of society wide integration and interconnectedness will always have a hole at its heart.
Aug 19th, 2006
Geoff
Yes and you don’t see any problems with Multiculturalism either Andrew.
That’s the problem.
That and the fact you deny it’s not about Integration with the dominant/mainstream Australian culture is another. Integration was our policy until a handful of social elites decided to experiment with our society.
You acknowledge ethnic and social division yet fail to put 1 and 1 together. That’s denial and it’s time you stopped it.
Aug 19th, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
I suppose it’s possible to deal with ethnic and social division by pretending that there’s one single ethnicity and narrow culture which everyone must subscribe to and be dominated by, although that sounds like the best definition of denial I’ve heard in a long while. Especially when we’re also bringing in half a million residents each year from every part of the planet at the same time.
I appreciate that some people prefer a nice simple one dimensional, but I prefer to stick with reality, even though it is complex.
Getting all the different cultures and identities that make up our nation to continually integrate effectively, dynamically and positively won’t happen by accident. It will need political and social support and will. That’s why continually refining and improving a policy of multiculturalism for a continually developing and growing nation is the best way to ensure continuing broad integration. Monoculturalism goes in the opposite direction.
Aug 19th, 2006
Geoff
So based on what I wrote about Australia’s cultural identity/s you’d say we are monocultural and that it’s a narrow culture eh Andrew? narrow? Care to define that? Doesn’t seem that “narrow” to me? Not special enough for your to be identified as a “narrow” Australian then is it Andrew?
Denying that the Australian “Western” culture is the dominant culture in Australia are you? Suffering from cultural cringe or embarrassment at that are you?
Half a million residents are there? I gather not all of them are going to become citizens? Are some of them tourists? On short term or working visas perhaps? Refugees? Do a great many of them go home eventually Andrew? Were you inferring that our population increases by 500,000 each year? In which case we’ll have a population increase of 1,000,000 every 2 years. Do you and the democrats think that is sustainable? if not what are you doing about it?
What is one dimensional about our population and culture Andrew? I’m really interested in that because I hardly think it is an apt description… just more empty rhetoric.
If people migrate here to australia where Australians live it is a fair thing IMO for them to want to become Australians.
What didn’t you understand about this Andrew?
We want others to join us as Australians and change with us… not force change upon us, or be separate from us.
This is what Integration is about… it is NOT what many cultures is about.
Aug 19th, 2006
David
I get the suspicion that multiculturalism is about softening Australia up for mass, unsustainable immigration in the future. Immigrants should be assimilated, and the only way to do that is by greatly reducing numbers.
Andrew is already talking about 500,000 temporary stayers as though they are permanent. What is your true agenda Andrew? Radical social change? Subverting the existing culture to suit some nihilistic vision?
People with these views should not be able to deviously usurp the Australian way of life, at the expense of decent ordinary Australians. If you don’t know what an Australian is, please see my earlier post.
Aug 19th, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
What is my agenda, David? Gee I don’t know, I thought I might just describe some basic facts which some people might not be aware of. I’m not sure how that equals “subverting the existing culture to suit some nihilistic vision”, but whatever you reckon.
We already have mass migration, as well as enormous mobility of many more people on top of that – including a million Australians living elsewhere, which I presume is a right people would like to be able to maintain.
It might help the accuracy of our public and political debates if we all actually recognised these things, instead of pretending it isn’t happening.
We still have skill shortages in some areas despite various skill-related visas bringing in well over 100 000 residents last year. Many industries also depend heavily on the working holiday visa program (also over 100 000) and most of our Universities are now financially dependent on international students (175 000 last year). Good luck with keeping our economy functional if we “greatly reduce” all of that.
As for Geoff’s rant at # 65 – well he’s already made clear many times before that he’ll keep insisting on his own distorted definition of multiculturalism so it can fit the arguments he wants to make, so there’s no point wasting time engaging in ‘debate’ on that. Geoff is the one trying to insist Australia has to be one dimensional, not me, so he can answer that and his various other misrepresentations of my statements himself.
My original post makes clear that I am talking about residency visas, and also differentiates between permanent and temporary residents. I suggest that you read it Geoff, although if you don’t know the difference between terms like resident, tourist, citizen and refugee, then it probably won’t make much sense to you.
Actually, I saw the start of a simplified definition of multiculturalism back up in comment #52 which wasn’t too bad, but it left a bit off the end:
Multiculturalism “is a policy that allows migrants to continue their culture here in Australia” through ongoing two-way integration with the wider community.
Aug 19th, 2006
Geoff
Being a self-confessed progressive, Andrew may just have a nihilistic agenda David. I never looked at it quite like that before, but it does seem congruous wth the so-called progressive-Left.
Aug 19th, 2006
Tom2
Being a self-demonstrated Hansonite reactionary, it’s probably not surprising that Geoff would see someone outlining unvarnished facts as proof of a nihilistic agenda.
Those people who insist on espousing facts, rather than mindlessly parroting unfounded prejudices, are clearly hell-bent on destroying our social system just for the sake of it.
Geoff reminds me of those White House officials who complain about the people in the “reality based community” and see them as enemies of the State.
Aug 20th, 2006
Paul Walter
Am sorry Andrew.
Must side with Geoff here.
Wsn’t it Albie Shultz, Heffernan or “Iron bar”,or one of such-like, who suggested the solution to multi-culturalism lay in “de-wogging” ceremonies like with jan 26th?
Of course, “two Wongs will never make a white”, but after a suitable period, say five or six decades; ’till we lerned ‘em how to be civilised and Kulchared like we are, we take them to the above ceremony.
Of course above is not sufficient in itself.
Then you take them out to a pub to teach them how to “shout” beer and get them (and yourself and nmates )as full as boots, with them bearing the cost as a sort of informal tuition fee and then take to a footy or cricket match.
Here they can chunder up over opposition supporters cheer-squad banners, earning themselves a thorough kicking and you a chance to excape so as to avoid the embarressment of being associated with such a (complexioned) person who can’t hold his beer.
Mightn’t do them much good intellerlecherly stright off, but will remind ‘em quick smart where their place h’is.
‘Nuff sayed.
Aug 20th, 2006
Marilyn Shepherd
All this nonsense of assimilating reminds me that the convicts and jailors never tried to assimilate into the lifestyle of the aborigines and live in humpies and eat grubs and kangaroos.
I wonder why not? As for the rest why on earth should my Afghan friends get drunk and carry on like fools when they don’t like grog?
What about the beautiful belly dancing Iranian women – should they assimilate by quitting belly dancing? It is pretty special to watch this sort of dancing you know.
Should all scotsmen stop wearing kilts at ceremonial occasions? What about Irish dancing? Should we stop that? Ever been to an Afghan party where the men cook and serve the women? Should we cancel that out? What about a Glendi Greek Festival?
Come on grow up and just accept people for who they are so long as they don’t hurt you.
Sydney’s problem is it is too big and too arrogant for it’s own good.
The 500,000 people who come here each year mostly manage to stay for 4 years, many forever. Some 5 million others come as tourists.
Funny how we don’t whine and whinge about them isn’t it? Or should we send them off to live in humpies and eat grubs to assimilate them with the genuine Aussies.
Aug 20th, 2006
Geoff
Well what an interesting bunch of strawmen we had there eh.
Ton, I\’m not a Hansonite or a Bartlettite. I\’m also not nihilistic. I suggest you take the latter up with David andd stop obsessing over me, I don\’t obsess over you. As for FACTS… yes I posted a heap of them at # 49 which no one yourself included has been able to refute.
Paul, why bother? Go back and read # 49…
Marilyn, rather simple and wrong. I\’ve never supported Assimilation as many of the Left describe it. I support Integration. If you think people should not Integrate into Australian society the that\’s fine, but the vast majority of Australians woulkd disagree with you. I know, that\’s not unusual.
As for your liking of belly dancing women, I\’m not sure that\’s relevant to anyone but you. But… you do make a salient point re Scotsmen. Yes they haven\’t forgotten their heritage and do celebrate it on various occassions… But they live the \”Australian Western culture\” the rest of the time don\’t they. Do you think maybe some of them get drunk on occassions too?BTWmany Australian men cook and serve women on regular occassions too you know. Ever been to an Australian barbeque Marilyn? You should do it sometime, it might be a bit of a cultural awakening for you.
BTW how can a city be arrogant. yes it\’s too big, but most migrants continue to want to come here. Can you do something about that? Maybe Andrew can eh.
Read # 49 and educate yourself about \”genuine Aussies\” marilyn.
Aug 20th, 2006
red
well ive read all sides againe and have come up with another question
if the countrys that have tried the multicultural experiment have had so mutch trouble with it and are now trying to rectify there mistake.
what makes the govt and ppl of hirer intelagence think that it will work here in this country.
a small quote for you to ponder
its a smart person that lurns from there mistakes .
but its a wise person that lurns from someone elces mistakes.
Aug 20th, 2006
Deborah
From what I know of BBQ’s, they are usually celebrated with such gusto because
-the women get a rare chance not to cook
- the men only feel comfortable cooking if they are outside, have support of best bud’s and they can turn this occasional cooking into a big party with lots of grog
- men and women in seperate groups, no attempt at integration or assimilation!
red, if your quote is accurate – why are we tagging along and totally supporting GW Bush’ crazy adventures?
Aug 20th, 2006
Geoff
No that’s mutliculturalism Deb, the formation of enclaves..
Next time I have a Barbie you are invited Deb… I’ll cook, but there won’t be lots of grog and the sexes actually mix.
Aug 20th, 2006
Deborah
Sounds good Geoff, I want the grog – but I’m not sure I’d like where the conversation would turn. It might only be the grog and my drunken state that would make it bearable ;)
Aug 20th, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
It is worth emphasising that this post is actually not about multiculturalism policy, but simply reports some basic facts about the very high levels of migration we currently have to Australia (and from Australia too, which is not totally unrelated), and suggests it is in our interests to do better with support and settlement services for those people.
It is worth re-emphasising that effective integration is at the heart of multiculturalism policy.
For whatever reason, there\’s still a few people remaining who try to repeat the tired Hanson-style assertions that it is about \’enclaves\’ etc, and pretend that it somehow does not involve integrating people across communities.
Obviously people are free to hold and express whatever views they want, and even inhabit whatever artificial reality they wish, but I\’m not interested in having \’debates\’ on this site that ignore or reject reality. Frankly, I have to endure way too much of that already in the Parliament, and I\’d rather see discussion here that is more intellectually stimulating than that.
It is unfortunate that some people try to use distorted and false portrayls of multiculturalism as a de facto way of attacking migrants or migration. It would be much better to have a direct debate on the issue of migration, where people who opposed it could genuinely suggest what the level and composition of our migration and resident intake should be. Otherwise the discussion just goes round in circles, avoiding the central issue, which makes the comment thread (and thus this site) rather boring.
Aug 20th, 2006
Geoff
Never assume Deb.
Andrew… I think you\’ll find I just followed the trend. As for your belief that \”better integration\” is at the heart of Multiculti, what can I say…? prove it? What are the positives associated with Multiculti?
As for your tired old denial about enclaves etc. Why do people call Cabramatta, Vietnamatta? Why is Leichardt called Little Italy? Why does Sydney have a Chinatown? What ethnicity is identified with Lakemba and Bankstown?
So in regards to your Hanson slur.. who in parliament do you have these debates with? I\’d have thought no one. Both major parties support Multiculti. Oh and Andrew if you\’d like a more intellectually stimulating debate based on reality…why ignore posts like #49
It\’s unfortunate in my opinion Andrew that people distort and ignore peoples concerns about Multiculturalism and try to make out those that do are; racist or xenophobic or bigoted. Why do you think it\’s ok to preserve other cultures and not the Australian culture. if you think we don\’t have a culture, please explain # 49.
Aug 20th, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
A key positive associated with an effective multiculturalism policy is better integration. There are many others, but I’ve been through them many times before as you know. For anyone actually interested, they can look at the relevant campaign pages on my website.
The tired Hansonite rhetoric is that multiculturalism somehow leads to ‘enclaves’, and that this somehow means a bunch of separate Australias. People who share a similar identity – whether it be ethnic, religious or something else sufficiently strong often group together in one area. This has happened in Australia since European settlement. A decent multiculturalism policy recognises reality and tries to bring positives out of it, rather than denies reality and tries to attack people for acting like people.
I don’t think that, and have never said anything even remotely approximating it. The fact that you are prepared to lie so blatantly shows your stance is morally as well as intellectually bankrupt.
Once again you are falsely ascribing views to me. You can explain post #49 if you like. I ignored it because I didn’t think it said anything worth commenting on. You could write something 100 times as long and you’d be barely scratching the surface of what constitutes the richness of Australia’s cultures.
Aug 20th, 2006
David
At the heart of this debate is why do we NEED high immigration? We don’t need it, but some people WANT high immigration. Why do we need ethnic diversity? We don’t don’t but some people want it.
Think of immigration like a heroin addiction, gets rid of the pain, temporarily. Skills shortages endure, because employers want a quick fix (not a solution). Universities will continue to rely on international students rather than corporate sponsorship because greed is king. And hell, a lot of Aussie men will be without a girlfriend if we stem the flow of Asian brides.
If you think that is racist think again, it is a fact many Aussie men have a fetish for Asian women. iT is RACIST however TO WONDER WHY THE HELL WHY! Poor buggers!
Aug 20th, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
Don’t need to think again David – there’s no doubt that’s racist in more ways than one. (Ignorant too, but you get that)
I’m torn between deleting it because it is racially vilifying, and leaving it up to show how racism is prevelant in this debate – (which one would hardly need to, except that people often try to shout down any suggestion that this is the case)
Aug 20th, 2006
The Feral Abacus
David, are you saying that we shouldn’t have ‘high’ immigration but that the thought of having an Australian girlfriend is so unpalatable that you think Australia needs to import large numbers of Asian brides for its men?
Aug 21st, 2006
Paul Walter
AB (and Feral), am disappointed at your intolerant and pompous responses to David .
You’ll sit back on your high horses and deliberate as to whether YOU will censor out someone’s nervously put attempt at a point of view because it doesn’t quite concur exactly to your own ideas or tastes?
This defacto McCarthyism actually has the pair of you displaying the same reaction to dissent as I would from rednecks in Alabama.
Would it not have been incrementally more intelligent to answer his question and the anxieties enveloped within, in a SENSIBLE fashion?
Or would you rather he just gives up trying to discuss these complex issues and retreats into a state of discouraged ignorance?
OK.
I’ll ask a similar question.
Why should immigration be ratchetted UP, at this time in our history when our political system is breaking down and we can get no intelligent response from the paralysed three tiers of government, as to the better management of precisly those resources that are needed to sustain a higher population? First things first?
Secondly there is every sign that neoliberalism would have any down stream costs for larger numbers of arrivals handed on to those least able to afford a downgrade in their own standards of living, rather than shared equitably.
You will say we should help the disadvantaged elsewhere (like the poor beggars in Calcutta I saw on a doco tonight). Quite right. May refugee numbers increase as far as I’m concerned, also.
But why do people not see that better ways, such as fairer trade laws, much more (and targetted) overseas aid and getting troublemaking big powers out of other peoples countries would help vastly greater numbers of people than mere band aid solutions?
Aug 21st, 2006
The Feral Abacus
Paul Walter – I was seeking clarification from David. His post seemed internally inconsistent, and I wanted to find out whether I was reading him correctly.
Aug 21st, 2006
The Feral Abacus
… and as it happens I would agree with David that importing skilled workers is a cop-out WRT investing in training and education.
Aug 21st, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
Paul
You have to be joking.
If people can’t or won’t express an opinion or ask a question (nervously or otherwise) without wrapping it in blatantly racist slurs, then I’m certainly not going to engage with them.
Am I supposed to assume that half a comment that expresses a view opposing migration has nothing to do with the other half of a comment that is just racist?
Dignifying the first part as though it is a genuine comment just dignifies the second part.
That’s not McCarthyism, it’s common sense.
You can call that intolerant if you want and you’d be right. I don’t tolerate racism and our society would be a lot better place if other people didn’t either.
Aug 21st, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
Feral A;
Importing skilled workers may be a cop-out instead of properly investing in education and training (although I think we’re always going to need a mix of both), but when the government has conciously underinvested in education and training for years and appears likely to continue to do so, then bringing skilled people here is pretty much unavoidable.
Mind you, that doesn’t explain the difficulty which some industries have in getting semi-skilled and unskilled workers in some localities. Migrant labour has been critical in addressing that labour market gap.
Also, if Australians want the right to be able to work overseas for periods of time (as we do and should), then it would be a bit inconsistent if we made it too difficult for people from elsewhere to be able to do the same here.
Aug 21st, 2006
The Feral Abacus
Andrew – Its not just the government that has been under-investing. I think industry should be taking a lot more responsibility for training too.
Part of the movement of skilled workers comes from the postdoctoral and research areas, where international movement between research centres is important. But I’d imagine that’s a small part of the overall numbers of skilled workers.
From my perspective, the alleged skills shortage is probably far less widespread than portrayed in the media. I suspect that it is mainly restricted to engineers working in the mining sector. I know a lot of highly qualified scientists who can’t find appropriate work. And last I heard, things weren’t too good in the IT sector either.
Aug 21st, 2006
Paul Walter
Firstly Feral- thanks for your intelligent responses. Yes, at the level of Academia the system is more “global”, for obvious reasons relating to “knowledge”..
Senator Bartlett (AGAIN!!!).
What is “racist” about querying whether ratchetting up immigration is good when the preconditions for successfully implementing it effectively are being perversely ducked by politicians of every hue? (enviro/economics/equity).
Feral answered quite fairly when he mentioned training. For the last decade wealth that could have employed for training was wasted on tax cuts and middle class welfare. Where is the fairness, then, when employers outsource work, or bring foreigners in to do jobs while local people who were convinced to accede on the basis they would would also benefit from change, are lift wallowing in the pig muck of repressive unemployment?
We all know it, why so hard you telling it to Dave?
You are as bad as the prevaricating and obfuscating government Senators Coonan, Minchin and Vanstone, that I watched on last week’s parliamentary telecast.
These religiously and gloatingly fobbed off or avoided the substance of serious issue-based question(s) from senators like Murray, Wong, Brown etc, with waffle and bluster. You seemed to have learned well their bad habits from them!
NO WHERE do you answer the POINTS orISSUES RAISED by either David or myself.
Please explain!
Or should David , a victim of inverted political correctness as well as lack of information, who has had the nerve to finally ask a difficult question, be forced to head off elsewhere to supposedly less acceptable qusrters to seek poorer answers, that may add to this countries problems in the long run?
Aug 21st, 2006
Geoff
Once more into the breech, dear friends, once more….
As for your belief that ”better integration” is at the heart of Multiculti, what can I say…? prove it? What are the positives associated with Multiculti?
I am still waiting for some proof Andrew. Justr saying something is so, is not proof. Restating a question as a statement is not proof, nor is it an answer.
Calling someone a liar requires proof of the lie. Also ignoring posted facts (#49)is an act of denial. As for your beief in Australian cultures.. I recognise 2 as Australian. The Australian Indigenous Culture and the Australian Western Culture. What others do you recognise?
Aug 21st, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
Don’t be ridiculous Paul – there is nothing racist in querying whether high immigration is good or not.
The second part of comment#80 was blatantly racist – you may think pretending it isn’t or that the comments weren’t made is acceptable, I do not.
Aug 21st, 2006
Paul Walter
(sigh).
No, I just think more time could be spent discussing real issues. Yes, ho hum, there was an amateurish comment that was a little off-colour in *80.
But there was an incredibly serious and sincere question asked, that also demanded at least the same amount of attention as the policing of the other naive comment.
I suppose I get an defacto answer of sorts in your refusal to answer the real issues raised.
But I do think it sad to exploit refugee issues as piggy back or stalking horse for neo lib labour “reform” agendas that damage so many ordinary people and make the future viability of a democratic state problematic.
Aug 21st, 2006
The Feral Abacus
To change topics a little, I just had a quick flick through the DIMIA annual report that Andrew B linked to. I noticed that there were 1112 visa cancellations during 2004-05 in the Business Skills programme. This seemed relatively high, given Business Skills intakes of 5670 in 2003-04 and 4820 in 2004-05 (Figure 8 in output 1.1), particularly given that a high proportion of the Business Skills visa applications are state and territory sponsered (under heading of “Business establishment and investment”). Can anyone throw any light on this?
Aug 21st, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
I agree Paul, it is indeed “sad to exploit refugee issues as piggy back or stalking horse for neo lib labour “reform” agendas that damage so many ordinary people and make the future viability of a democratic state problematic.” If you see any examples of someone doing it, let me know and we can condemn them together.
Feral A;
That cancellation number does seem a bit high, although the intakes seem way too low as well. I’ll have a look at the report when I get a chance and see if there’s some extra info I can add.
Aug 21st, 2006
The Feral Abacus
Andrew; thanks. Must admit I was expecting the intakes to be higher too. Is there a separate category for business immigrants? The figures I quoted were for visas only, which I assume is for medium-term stays akin to student visas.
Aug 21st, 2006
David
To clarify, post #80 was a clumsy attempt at an analogy between Australia’s skills shortages and the shortage of Australian women. Of course there is no shortage of Australian women, some men just have a fetish for Asian women!
In a similar vein, Australian industry seem to overlook homegrown ‘talent’. I am not aware of major corporate investment in tertiary education. I am not aware of industries with skills shortages visiting schools and letting young people know where the jobs are. Andrew Bartlett, do you know what steps Industry bodies take to address skills shortage (apart from immigration)? Are they visiting the schools and the unemployed informing people how to get a job? – the cynic in me says NO.
The skills shortage argument seems a bit hollow. Maybe I am tired and can’t think straight. Cheers.
Aug 21st, 2006
Paul Walter
Andrew, still awaiting with avid interest your reply to David’s reasonable question. Some might consider you to be actually ducking, but that would be only for the want of a credible answer.
Will continue holding my ‘bated breath?
Aug 21st, 2006
blogggit
AUSTRALIA HAS AN OVERSEAS SPOUSE QUOTA FIXED AT 30,000 A YEAR
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PHILIP RUDDOCK is now Australia\’s Attorney General.Philip Ruddock is also known as the \”Walking Cadaver.\”
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The following is an article from the \”Sydney Morning Herald\”September, 17th, 1996.
\”MIGRANT LAW MAY SEPARATE MARRIED COUPLES
The Government will cap and kill applications by Australians to bring their overseas spouses into Australia a move which would see long-term separations of married couples unless the Opposition allows through the Senate tough new measures to curb applications.
The Minister for Immigration, Mr Ruddock,said the draconian move,allowable under present law but never used in relation to spouses, would help curb huge increases in applications for spouses, some of which were shams, but others \’a fraud on Australians\’.
Under present practise,applications for offshore spouses to come are allowed regardless of the quota set.Mr Ruddock wants to enforce his quota by a cap and queue regulation, making applicants after the qouta is reached to wait, possibly for months, until heading the queue for next years intake.
But in the face of Labor opposition in the Senate, he threatened to use his general cap and kill power to terminate applications made post-qouta.This would force Australians to apply again next year on equal terms with next year\’s applicants, causing indefinite separations.
Mr Ruddock\’s threat, which contradicts the Coalition\’s strong pro-family rhetoric but is part of a clampdown on migration numbers,was denounced by Labor\’s immigration spokeman, Mr Duncan Kerr, as social engineering.
The Opposition last week knocked off in the Senate one of several changes to regulations to tighten elegibility for \’preferential family\’ migration,available to spouses and aged parents.Mr Kerr told the Herald Labor would also disallow Mr Ruddock\’s \’cap and queue\’ regulation.
Mr Ruddock told the Herald that if people who had already applied were allowed in,the progam would overstep this year\’s 36,700 quota by about 13,000.Rather than allow an overshoot, he would use his general power under current law to cap and kill,unless Labor stopped trying to micro-manage his immigration program by disallowing regulations in the Senate.
Mr Kerr said that \’Australians have always exercised their own choice on who they\’ll marry,and I don\’t believe any red-blooded Australian will allow the Government to force couples to queue up to live together.Now he\’s saying if he can\’t queue them he\’ll cut them off.
\’If you meet and marry in January,thats OK,but if you\’re a December bride or groom you mightn\’t be able to get your spouse in for years.\’
Mr Ruddock said he did not regard cap and terminate as the best outcome, but if it is necessary I will be applying it.
He said Labor had maintained a steady 37,000 quota for four years,before lifting it last year to 50,000.Many people had reported partners \’walking out the door as soon as they arrive in Australia.\’ \’The fraud is being occasioned on Australians by people seeking to migrate,\’ he said.
Mr Kerr blamed the increase on the wash-up of the Tiananmen Square massacre,under which Labor granted 40,000 Chinese people refugee status.But Mr Ruddock said there rises in applications accross the board, and the percentage increase was as great in England.\”
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JOHN HOWARD-The Lying Rodent.John Howard wants free trade but not the free movement of people.He thinks Australias biggest assets are its sheep, coal and uranium not people.He says he has the final solution to our problems \”Too many people.\”
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\”Philip Ruddock gazetted regulations when he was Australia\’s immigration minister[number S241 of 1997] to stop visitors from many countries coming to Australia and among them is Poland.[Israel is also on the list as well as the following countries-Bangladesh, Burma, Cambodia, Chile, China, Colombia, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Egypt, Fiji, Greece, Hungary, India, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Macedonia, Mauritius, Nauru, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Romania, Samoa, Slovakia, Sri Lanka, Syria, Tonga, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Vanuatu, Vietnam and Yugoslavia].\”
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More at
http://nowhiteaustralia.blogspot.com/
And
http://www.country-liberal-party.com/pages/Let-Them-Drown.html
And
http://www.country-liberal-party.com/pages/LetThemLand.htm
And
http://www.country-liberal-party.com/pages/Child-abuse.htm
Aug 21st, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
Paul, I would advise against holding your breath – bated or otherwise – waiting for an answer to any particular question. You’ll run a serious risk of asphyxiation. I don’t answer every question posed in every comment, and when I am going to answer, I don’t spend my whole life in front the computer in order to do so straight away, so it can be a long wait.
I’ve provided my views on most aspects of immigration policy and issues many times – some people might even suggest ad nauseum. Have a read of all my posts and comments at this link – once you’ve done that, if you still think I’m avoiding stating a view on any question or aspect on this issue, then you’re an extremely hard man to please.
Aug 21st, 2006
Andrew Bartlett
In response to #96, I agree there is more that industry can do in regard to training, although I wouldn’t suggest they are doing nothing. Some industry bodies are targeting school leavers, doing sales pitches, etc.
In some areas and industries, it is so hard to get people they are importing untrained people and then training them here.
I don’t fully understand why this happens, although the upfront costs of higher education and training is certainly preventing some Australians from accessing it.
It is also a bit perplexing, as I know there are people who find it hard to get employment in many areas.
However, employers and industry are not evil nasty people who are just refusing to employ Australians because of some nefarious tendency towards reverse racism. It is always cheaper for an employer to grab someone who is already trained, but it is cheaper for them to grab a trained Australian than import someone (apart from the small percentage who will try to seriously exploit and underpay the overseas worker, which is a real issue but nowhere near big enough to explain why we are needing to import skilled people).
All I can say is its not neat and simple, and matching people with skills and secure jobs in a constantly evolving and changing employment market is not a straighforward thing.
Remember, we have haad skilled migration visas for many years. The main difference now is that the numbers are much higher – I don’t have a problem with that if the demand is there, as it generates further jobs and prosperity for Australia. However, I do believe the increase has been too much too quickly – very quick leaps in intake can have distorting effects and increases the chances of bad administration of the migration program and of people falling through the cracks.
Aug 21st, 2006
The Feral Abacus
David: re #96. A bit off topic so I’ll be brief. Some large corporations (eg BHP, KPMG) and govt depts (ATO, Bureau of Statistics) actively promote job opportunities at career fairs at Unis (I don’t know what happens at high school level). Some also offer scholarships for higher-degree students, mostly in the form of small ($2000-5000 pa) supplementary bursaries. This tends to be restricted to a few disciplines, mainly economics, law and engineering.
The other contribution from industry at tertiary level comes through SPIRT grants and Co-operative Research Centres. I have many reservations about these – in short they constrain Australia’s research effort, take money from govt and unis to heavily subsidize research for industry, and too often the higher-degree student ends up with a very second-rate educational experience.
Aug 21st, 2006
Paul Walter
Andrew, perhaps a slight crossing of wires. Am well enough aware that you would know that immigration is a complex things, particularly in a society undergoing a metamorphosis, the final appearance, substance and destination the like of which no one seems comfortably able to predict. Currently different paradigms not so apparent in more settled times compete to define what “immigration” should do and be.
Deb’s story of abuse of surveillance in another thread demostrates just how easily benevolent aproaches can be subverted to darker tendencies.
The problem with immigration for me, is that it has been appropriated as a battle ground for two now-antagonistic meta-narratives.
One proposes immigration as a bonding social process and a building of community. A now increasingly antagonistic paradigm proposes contracts between innovative individuals in a post-lapsarian world, regardless of and even rejoicing at, any impact on a threatening decaying social entity.
One view is comfortable with society and stability, the other inovative and restless but
opportunistic and survivalist.
It’s arguably a post-modern landscape; difficult to “read” for many individuals, for those seeking the retreival of “community”.
I hope Dave embraces reason. I don’t think he is “racist”, although like everyone else he probably carries unsavoury nascent tendencies, unconsciously revealed at an early stage. He is just perplexed and surprised, as a sojourner in a strangely familiar strange terrain, for the rest of us, too. Hence the feeling that he should rather more embraced than chided, because he is in a real sense, probably as much an “immigrant” as any of us.
Aug 22nd, 2006
Jane
If I know of a person who works as a taxi driver in Sydney and keep the cell phones etc found at the backseats and never return them to their rightful owner or pass them along to the police or some kind of lost and found site, is it considered as a criminal act? Will his permanent resident visa be revoked if found out and what will happen to the visa of his wife who had been granted the PR initially and from which he obtained his PR by marriage. The question is, does it regarded as a criminal misconduct and should I report it to the immigration department?
Aug 24th, 2006
People Against Live Exports
Jane.
I will answer if you like.
Yes you should and he should be put on notice.
if Australia has been been good enough to take him and his family he should begrateful and honest to its people.
It goes to the very bone of the issue> Character and honesty.
A warning should be given in writing.
Thats fair to me.
Thank you for your question.
Aug 25th, 2006
Kaye Bernard
Post 103 if you feel the need to report the conduct you allege then the police would be the appropriate agency.
If the allegations resulted in a police investigation and resulted in criminal charges then the justice system would rightly deal with the matter through the courts.
As to the question of the revocation of permanent residency visa, that would be a matter dependent on the sentence associated resulting from a conviction and the subsequent reporting to the Immigration Department followed by the discretion of the Immigration Minister.
This Senate submission
http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/legcon_ctte/migration/submissions/sub102.pdf
provides some facts in relation to the application of the’criminal deportation’ of non citizens eg those on permanent visas.
I support a family of Australian citizens dealing with the aftermath of a cancellation of a permanent visa for a family member and the detrimental flow on effects, particularly for children are wide ranging.
Aug 25th, 2006
Geoff
Good to see your still around jane.
theft is certainly a criminal act.
All taxi services have a lost and found so customers can call to check if they left someting behind. all drivers know this.
To not hand in items is deliberate theft.
Aug 26th, 2006
People Against Live Exports
Next Monday Evening On Current Affair> (
Watch the Story on the Restuarnt Who Ban Australian Customers.
I guess thats up to them but I wish they would find another country than Australia to do it in.
Aug 26th, 2006
jim
thanks for the great info really helped with my researched.
Oct 10th, 2006
Kym Durance
The facts do speak for themselves – it is a pity these are not more accesable –
The first mistake we made with multi culturalism was giving the phenomenon of differetn peoples living together a name –
right away the process is set apart as something other than a normal way to live.
I and I am very reluctant to engage in a debate on this matter in this current climate as peopels perceptions have been distorted by a constant focus on Islamism.
10 years ago we shook in our boots at the Asianisation of Australia – where has all that anghst gone? -
Oct 11th, 2006
Renee
I thought this was about refugee’s arriving by the hundreds in boats?
Whilst we are so focussed on the few who do utilise this method of transporting themselves to Australia just to be inhumanely treated and confined in detention centres, however still rough it out in the hopes of being granted the right to live here (which indicates to me the country they came from must have been hell since they don’t volunteer to go back) we forget about the how many??? that slip in through the “Legit” way, a visa, only they don’t leave when the visa expires.
I wonder how many of them are out there……
And why are we still using the “boat people” as scapegoats?
Oct 12th, 2006