Some Australians are more equal than others
On Friday night I attended and spoke at a pre-election forum in Brisbane organised by the Ethnic Communities Council of Queensland. It was focused on the issues of immigration, citizenship, multiculturalism and refugees & asylum seekers. Other speakers apart from me were Laurie Ferguson from the ALP, Teresa Gambaro from the Liberals, Larissa Waters from the Greens and Jan Pakallus from the Citizens Electoral Council.
The forum happened to coincide with the pre-meditated and deliberate public attacks on Australians with Sudanese heritage by the Immigration Minister, Kevin Andrews, supported by the Prime Minister and other Coalition members. Not surprisingly a number of Australians there who were originally from Sudan were present who were less than happy and made their anger plain to Teresa Gambaro. I had a tiny bit of sympathy for her, as I doubt she personally supports Kevin Andrews’ comments – but only a bit. There are few things more socially corrosive and politically unacceptable in my view than engaging in deliberate, racially motivated attacks against a vulnerable and visible minority, and there is no doubt in my mind that these racial slurs spread through our media by the Coalition were a conscious effort to try to win votes through inflaming prejudice. When a party stoops so low as to willingly harm our social fabric and cause individual hurt to people who have already suffered enormously, and to publicly validate and encourage expressions of racially motivated prejudice, they are not fit to be in government.
There’s no surprise that Pauline Hanson came out supporting the Coalition government’s statements – Kevin Andrews’ comments mirrored those originally made by Hanson herself some months earlier. This follows a consistent pattern, where Hanson attacks a minority in the community with false or grossly distorted accusations, and a little while later, Mr Howard and/or one of his senior Ministers follows with similar attacks. In the intervening period, they would have seen the research about how different groups in the community react to Hanson’s comments, and what their voting preferences are. Apart from the distorted smears on Australians of African background, we’ve had baseless attacks on migrants and people with HIV-AIDS and exaggerated slurs on Muslim migrants.
The Howard government recent racially motivated attacks have received significant coverage outside of Australia. It’s hard to see how international media coverage that the Australian government uses racist arguments to justify our refugee intake decisions can be in our national interest. There is a good range of links the widespread media coverage – both national and international – at these links here, here and here.
In another sick irony, it also puts the lie to the myth the Coalition have long promoted as a way of attacking asylum seekers who arrive by boat – that we allegedly base our refugee intake on who is the most needy. This has always been misleading at best, but Minister Andrews has new made clear that ‘most easily fit in’ is a rather more relevant criteria for this government. I was especially amazed to read that Gerard Henderson, who has occasionally been mildly critical of the government’s approach to refugees in the past, took this new reverse spin to the extreme of suggesting that refugees who came here by boat were actually more suited than African refugees selected from refugee camps because the boat people had shown more initiative! There’s many other posts on this topic around the blogosphere – I thought I’d link to this one on Don’s Party, which includes a very good Clarke & Dawe style spoof ‘interview’ with Kevin Andrews.
And I felt I had to end by sharing one of the pieces of feedback I got elsewhere on this site from a reader following some of my media comments on this matter:
Hey Bartlett, If you love black savages so much, why don’t you piss off to Zimbabwe. Your comment on the ABC “There’s no doubt the Minister is in part responding to some of the slurs put out by Pauline Hanson,” ,really annoys me. So go to hell.
71 Comments, Comment or Ping
geoff
Two things to start off with Andrew. One is Hanson is bound to make some ill informed comments regards this matter, but there will also be some truth in what she says. two, I don’t doubt, that the fact that Hanson is in competition to you, is not a motivating factor in any comments you make about her or on the subject.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22534906-5007146,00.html
“So, can everyone settle down about the Sudanese before we convince ourselves we really are liars or racists?
This latest fuss started with Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews saying we’ve filled our quota of African refugees for this financial year and no more will be allowed until the next.
From the screaming since, you’d think three things are sickeningly true, which in fact are reassuringly false.
First: you’d think the Howard Government – or the me-too Rudd alternative – will never let in another African refugee.
False. Neither side has said any such thing. Essentially all that has been said is that the Government has already filled its quota this year for African refugees – 30 per cent of our annual intake of 13,000 refugees from around the world – and won’t increase it.”
Oct 7th, 2007
Sarah
This latest fuss started with Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews saying we’ve filled our quota of African refugees for this financial year and no more will be allowed until the next.
This ‘fuss’ started with Kevin Andrews implying that the fact that an 18 year old Sudanese man was bashed to death by some white Australian attackers was due to Sudanese refugees ‘not integrating’ properly.
As for there being any truth in the racist vitriol spouted by Hanson, I have yet to see any, and I doubt there’s any person who’s not a racist themselves who would think that there is indeed any.
Oct 7th, 2007
Ptobias
Geoff,
The problem with your claim that “there will also be some truth in what she says” is that Hanson’s and Andrews’ claims are not supported by any actual evidence. In fact, if you read the third issue Andrew Bolt deals with in the story you linked to, you will find that even he acknowledges that the crime statistics do not support these claims about Sudanese youths.
His other arguments, including the first one that you quoted, are attacks on straw men. The primary issue is that the Government, and Kevin Andrews in particular, have made unsubstantiated claims that potentially damage the reputation of an entire cultural group within Australian society.
As far as your suggestion that Senator Bartlett’s criticisms of Pauline Hanson are politically motivated, what exactly is wrong with a politician being critical of his political opponent when he believes that opponent is wrong? I don’t think the Senator has adopted a position he wouldn’t have held in the absence of Pauline Hanson – are you suggesting that he would have accepted the Government’s decision if not for Hanson’s statements in favour of it?
Oct 7th, 2007
philip travers
Piss off to Zimbabwe!? A destiny that seems a bit long seeing there are closer African countries!? Seems like the insulters of the Senator on this matter are geographically shy. I want the same right as Pauline Hanson to amass large bills and get the Electoral Commission to pay them,after all the head of Telstra isnt a problem for me as race is concerned or even his previous nationality,and really the money wouldnt be going to me or him but the functioning accounts.And what hope as Pauline got anyway!? Or me for that matter,seeing I think , the Electoral Commission is as corporate and sneaky as all the rodents crews. Stick to it Senator Andrew, I know this stuff is personal!
Oct 7th, 2007
geoff
Sarah, youclaim; “This ‘fuss’ started with… bashed to death by some white Australian attackers was due to Sudanese refugees ‘not integrating’ properly.” Do you honestly believe this to be the truth? You also say; “As for there being any truth in the racist vitriol spouted by Hanson, I have yet to see any, and I doubt there’s any person who’s not a racist themselves who would think that there is indeed any.” Well I have yet to see any racist vitriol from Hanson. Care to share a quote with us? BTW, I’m not a racist and IMO no race is superior or inferior to another.
Ptobias, you say;”The problem with your claim that “there will also be some truth in what she says” is that Hanson’s and Andrews’ claims are not supported by any actual evidence.” Well hold on, what claim has Hanson made? Oh, BTW, there’s nothing wrong with Bartlett criticising Hanson, I never said there was..
Philip, atually the Electoral Commission/Office still owes Pauline Hanson’s One Nation over $500,000. Oh and I’m sure that other candidates get monies from the commission too given they get a certain amount of votes
Meanwhile back to the Sudanese…. near where I live one man has infected several women with AIDS and there is a small gang problem. Let’s hope it doesn’t get bigger. car theft and driving without licenses. There are also various difficulties with settlement re getting used to our way of life and things we take for granted. Like; paying for goods at the checkout, using the phone and appliances like washing machines. I also recall from the newspapers a tragic event where a child died because his father didn’t know how to use a phone. No one had shown him how. So in some respect I can agree with Andrew’s and Hanson’s claims of settlement difficulties and incompatability. I can also see the sense in sending aid etc to these people in their own country. I’ve met a few and those I’ve met seem nice enough, I disagree however that they cannot become compatable.
Oct 7th, 2007
Kyle Schuant
It’s a pity that “incitement to racial hatred” is only a (Victorian) state crime, and not a federal one.
Oct 7th, 2007
Geoff
Why Kyle? Who’s been inciting racial hatred? Can you provide any proof that the law in Vic has had any positive effect?
Oct 8th, 2007
Ptobias
Geoff, here are some of Hanson’s claims:
And some more:
All I see are completely unsubstantiated claims of crime and disease associated with one cultural group, designed to incite fear and hatred. If you feel there is some truth in them, feel free to point out where it is.
Oct 8th, 2007
Naomi Cartledge
Geoff,I’ve heard Pauline Hanson make racist allegations about people from Africa. Not the actual quote, but this is a summation on ABC National radio News, on Friday last, 5th Oct. ‘That African people bring aids and other diseases, violence, can’t integrate and should not be brought here’. That’s racist and a lie! I hate racism in all its forms, and it’s sad to see, that Pauline’s stint in jail didn’t teach her a damned thing abour justice or compassion.
Three years ago, I was in Newcastle visiting my three gorgeous grand kids, my son and daughter in law. A local white supremist person was speaking in a similar manner; they’d letter boxed similar hateful, racist and libellous garbage on a Friday. The next morning we went to a rally in Newcastle centre which had been organized in less than 24 hours – it was packed with supporters of the people from Sudan, some of whom braved threats to attend. What brave and articulate people. My 3 little grand kids attended their first rally, had their faces painted and had a ball, and learned a lot about acceptance versus racism, I’m sure! Politicians from all three levels were there. The resolution welcoming the new arrivals was unanimously endorsed through acclamation. The ‘rally’ organized by the haters was a dismal failure; about a handful of haters in attendance. Did my heart good to find that out!
We must speak up about racism whenever it happens. I don’t want Pauline Hanson’s Australia for my grand kids to grow up in. It’s hateful and revolting. To discriminate against a people because of something outside their control, the colour of their skin, demeans us all. Kevin Andrews is not an idiot; he knew exactly what he was doing. To behave in this manner, to a people who’ve suffered so much is unforgivable. The White Australia Policy is alive and well in Canberra! So much for his allegiance to christianity? He makes me feel sick!
Oct 8th, 2007
ken
I’ve never read so many posts about illness.
it’s sad some people seem to be so genuinely living in such pepetual despair as you naomi.
Anywya, on this occasion I agree with you, however it shoudl not be forgottne that racism is a universal trait and unfortunnately a by produc of individaul and cultural differnce. No amount of feel good social engienering will ever chnage that, despite the best intention.
You need to live a multicultural life to learn that just as some of us display racism, we are equally despised and sneered at as inferior by many other races. Answers? – god knows.
Oct 8th, 2007
CORAL
That’s exactly right, Ken. But how about this?
Friends of mine visited their children and grandchildren stationed in Indonesia at Christmas. The husband came back with an incurable (CONTAGIOUS!!!!) fungal infection in his lungs. He caught it from his family over there.
Yesterday I was instructed by my daughter-in-law, who works for the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA), to find out what the hell he has – which should be easy – since he is a scientist as well. I hope to see him on Thursday.
There needs to be a serious rethink on overseas travel, immigration and the intake of refugees. My daughter-in-law told me only days ago how worried she is about new cases of TB and smallpox.
BTW, I defy any doctor to diagnose contagious diseases in their pre-clinical stages. Diseases are most contagious before any symptoms develop in the carrier.
I currently have two sets of African neighbours (English and German). The English people came here from Zimbabwe and have an absolute hatred of Robert Magabe.
The other neighbours are from South Africa. Ever since immigrants started arriving from Sudan (there are heaps in our area), they’ve made many comments about the trouble they’re likely to cause.
Both sets of neighbours came here to get away from racial friction, only to find it has followed them.
Oct 8th, 2007
Adele
“Hanson is bound to make some ill informed comments regards this matter, but there will also be some truth in what she says.”
Partial truth is no justification for racism. There is partial truth in most racial stereotypes. Racism is using those partial truths to vilify and degrade people or portray them as being of lesser worth. And it is the untrue, exaggerated and distorted parts that are tacked onto the scraps of truth that make the racist lie so destructive. Something Goebbels knew quite well.
Besides, Hanson is a sideshow here. The real worry is senior government Ministers, including the Immigration Minister for gods sake, engaing in deliberate racial targetting. Good on Anna Bligh for calling it as it is.
Oct 8th, 2007
Naomi Cartledge
ken, I think you know exactly what I mean when I say that racism, “makes me feel sick”.Yes, I do feel despair – for the planet! At 62, I’d like to think that the world might be a better place when I leave, than when I was born-4 months and 2 days before the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It would be much easier to watch, ‘days of our drearies’ and let it all go by. Then there’s Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran (soon probably)invasion of indigenous land in the NT, so-called anti-terror laws, abuse of parliament, racism, health and education, workers rights under Howard – the list goes on. Also, racism is the responsibility of every person, not the collective. I can only control my own behaviour, and raise my kids accordingly, which I tried to do. Pity the federal government doesn’t have the same view and adopt it in their policies and behaviour, and cease the ‘dog whistling’ that they insist on using ad nauseum.
Coral, viruses and illnesses can be picked up in all countries. I know of several instances of lung diseases contracted in Australia. Smoking can make people prone to illness of this nature. Poor ventillation and/or housekeeping can cause fungus diseases too. You don’t have to leave this country for that to happen. With technology and knowing what you’re looking far, diseases can be detected in early stages. As for smallpox and TB – that’s why we have immunization against such things prior to going overseas and/or at home.
Incidently, I’m one of 7 remaining children, and with the extended family, we could start our own UN. Malta, Indonesia, El Salvador, Italy, Scotland, New Zealand, Britain and probably others I’ve forgotten. The police have refused to be drawn into this latest attempt at division by Kevin Andrews. There’s no evidence of people from Sudan being involved in anti-social behaviour more than anyone else, in fact, the contrary is the fact they asserted. Good for them! That took courage!
Oct 8th, 2007
Donna
I’ve taught Sudanese, among other African kids.
They were engaged and respectful.
Oct 8th, 2007
zen
The dissemination of (usually) pre-election xenophobia has worked in the past (both in Europe and Australia) so the government wanted to try the ‘race-rabbit- trick’ once again.(and again, ad nauseam).It was with Dr. Haneef; then very funny citizenship test (Phar Lap was a New Zealand horse, and our political system is a constitutional monarchy, and Simpson, if not his donkey was British)- and now the Sudanese. Alas, Bali Nine, Bryant, Chapelle Corby, bikie gangs and Snowtown killers do not come from a Sudanese family.
Kevin Andrews has very poor P/R and no communication skills, whatsoever. It would have been better if he had not given any reason for the change of migration mix. After all, Australia has every right to adjust the immigration program. But some people confuse ‘culture’ with social pathology. We do not judge any community by the number of paedophile priests.
And ‘angelic’ Hanson worried about AIDS transmitted by the Sudanese? Where was she when the virus was first introduced to Australia? Next, it would be equine virus and African variety of cow-mouth disease.
It would be much better if Kevin Andrews did his job and tried to find 34.021 Australian passports lost or sold. (Border protection?) According to a government official Australian government ‘is trying to prevent Australians selling their passports overseas ($20.000 each)and then reporting them lost’.
Oct 8th, 2007
geoff
naomi;”Geoff,I’ve heard Pauline Hanson make racist allegations about people from Africa. Not the actual quote”
Good enough place to start,so how do you know what she actually said and in what context? You’ve probably never met Hanson, so you just believe the vilification about her. I have met her, heard her speak (painful as that is) and doubt very much she is a racist. If she was the aborigines in WA who met her wouldn’t have said she wasn’t and the asian lady she let run her shop wouldn’t have (run her shop).
ptobias, so where are those “racist” quotes? As I said some of what she says will be right, some will be wrong. Just remember… “no child will live in poverty”… yep sometimes people get it wrong. Oh and I already supplied anecdotal evidence that those claims you say are “completely unsubstantiated” are in fact not.
ken, I don’t believe everyone is racist. I think that’s a taught/learned thing. Thankfully I was never taught it.
adele, I keep waiting for you to backup your claims… where is the racism?
Oct 8th, 2007
CORAL
Naomi:
Of course Sudanese people would make assertions to the contrary. How naive is this comment?
People who come here from Africa know far more about problems among the Sudanese and other races, because they have lived among them, unlike us.
I’ve seen Sudanese kids swinging like monkeys from the emergency exits on buses, and doing other stupid things that could injure both themselves and others.
Yes, viruses and illnesses can be picked up in all countries. That’s exactly my point.
Most of our children are NOT vaccinated against TB or smallpox, along with a significant number of adults.
It is very easy for tourists, immigrants and refugees to bring these and other diseases into the country undetected.
Social and medical concerns are not racism. I find that people want to bandy the term “racism” about, whenever they have no valid argument.
Oct 9th, 2007
ken
Geoff – I never said everyone is racist, what I said was that every culture / tribe / group – or whatver collectie noun you wish to apply, consists of multitudes of individuals who are rascist towards others who have some or several or even one physical, cultural or behavioural differnece.
That is a statemetn of fact, behaviourally ingrained in the solcialisation process, read even the most simple social psychology text. This is not condonoing or denying simply stating the bleeding obviuos.
It is not something we need to continully self falgellate about, but rather as Naomi says be awaer of and try to improve our own interations on an indivdual level.
Oct 9th, 2007
Charles Hanray
When are people going to realise that true integration and multiculturism are never going to work? It doesn’t matter how much a do gooder or tree hugger you are, you must realise that each race believes itself to be the best race on earth. That means any other race is inferior to them. Why tempt fate and try to integrate?
Oct 9th, 2007
zen
Charles,
I asked my friend from Gold Coast, who happens to be my accountant, about some language issue in India. He looked at me totally perplexed; ‘Sorry, I can’t help you, I am Australian and I do not speak any Indian language’ I felt very embarrassed and apologised. We are still friends. My friend-accountant was born in Australia after his parents had migrated here from India. He is married to an Australian- born Greek lady and they have nine kids. The kids do not speak any Hindu but they do speak Greek and the whole family attend the Greek-Orthodox church. All kids went to St. Ignatius Catholic (Jesuit) School. After the father, they all have dark skin. English language is their first language. According to every single cenzus they are 100% Australians. One may argue that they have never integrated because they did not join COE (Church of England)and the kids will stay with their parents until they have completed their education and are totally independent – usually until they get married.
It is not unusual that second generation migrants do not speak language of their parents; I know quite a few who have changed their ‘exotic’ names and surnames.(Klim) This phenomenon happens in every country, I know of, so the ‘pure breed’ may be only detected by DNA test and I think some ‘true-blue-blood Aryans’(consecutive ministers for immigration included) would love to round up some citizens and check their genetic pattern. Pauline Hanson’s children could be tested first.
But in that context, I do not quite understand the word ‘integration’ let alone ‘multiculturalism’ – both terms raised just only recently by the Howard government as the pre-election, yet another, racist vote-catching trap. Some people walked right into it.
Miraculosly, Pauline Hanson, former Liberal,is trying to help, again.
Oct 9th, 2007
muzzmonster
While it is sometimes tempting for this atheist to think of our wide brown as “God’s Own”, I and many others certainly don’t think of their race as superior.
I think that people are often suspicious of newness, whether that comes in the shape of music, technology or people who speak a different language or wear different clothes.
Of course we think our ways are better, but unless we open our eyes, we will never realise we are wrong in many ways.
Oct 9th, 2007
CORAL
Charles:
That’s exactly what my Indian neighbours said. They looked after their own kind, while using everyone else for their own purposes.
My family helped them whenever help was requested. The African neighbours helped them too.
In return, the Indians just helped themselves.
Oct 9th, 2007
geoff
I’m rather appalled at some of your thinking Zen. Maybe you should apologise to more than just your friend. As for your Hanson comments, they’re rather silly aren’t they. As much as your thoughts on what it is to be “Australian”.
I know Hanson would not be helping the Liberals so you can drop that conspiracy theory. Remember a Liberal was behind having her wrongly incarcerated.
Muzz, why would you think you are “better” than someone else, without any evidence to prove you are?
Oct 9th, 2007
muzzmonster
I don’t Geoff. I know many of the things I do could do with a lot of improvement.
I was trying to say that many people do think that the way they live (not themselves) is better than how others live, because they know of no other way to live.
Oct 9th, 2007
Adele
Geoff said “I don’t believe everyone is racist. I think that’s a taught/learned thing. Thankfully I was never taught it. adele, I keep waiting for you to backup your claims… where is the racism?”
It seems that when you say you were never taught racism Geoff, you are saying you were never taught to understand racism, because you clearly are incapable of recognising it even when it is staring you in the face.
If you can’t see any racism in any of Pauline Hanson’s comments, let alone Kevin Andrews’, then clearly nothing extra that I say is likely to be able to open your eyes to the obvious.
Oct 9th, 2007
geoff
I’m not the one vilifying and name-calling adele. i’m still waiting for you to… show me the “racism”.
A racist as I was taught as a child; is someone with the belief that people are superior or inferior to another due to their race.
You it seems cannot distinguish between racist and racial. Even though it is nationality and not race that has been mentioned.
Once more you leave the debate by attacking the messenger.
Oct 9th, 2007
Peter
Another tragic death in a family, but this one was not widely published by the Australian media(This incident occured about a month back).
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/10/10/1191695968357.html
International students must be careful in choosing Australia as a study destination. Hate crimes are on the rise in Australia. Recently another student was attacked in Melbourne.
Also Australia’s immigration minister Kevin Andrews is inciting hatred against immigrants from Asia, Middle East and Africa.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22564133-5005961,00.html
Canada,US,UK, New Zealand and Ireland may be a good alternative for International students, as governments in these countries do not incite hate crimes. For Asian(and other) students Japan, South Korea and Singapore could be an alternative study option as these countries are increasing looking for International students.
Oct 11th, 2007
Adele
I didn’t say you were name-calling Geoff, I said you clearly can’t recognise racism even when it is staring you in the face.
Playing around with the difference between ‘racist’ and ‘racial’ is just hair-splitting.
If you cannot or will not accept that it is racist to make false, exaggerated or selective claims to publicly attack refugees from Africa and say ‘we don’t want those people here’, then nothing I or anyone else says is likely to open your eyes or your mind to the obvious.
Why don’t you ask some of the black skinned people from Africa who are now Australians if they feel they have been racially attacked, and then try to tell them it was just “racial” criticism, not “racist” criticism?
Try putting yourself in their shoes for a minute and image how you’d feel.
Oct 11th, 2007
Geoff
Excuse me adele. i’m not the one playing around with the English language. if I can recognise the difference between an Asian (Mongoloid) and an African (Negroid) then I’m not being racist, but I am recognising racial differences.
Throwing around the racist slur has been a tool of the progressive Left for decades to intinidate an vilify others into silence.
What makes you think I haven’t seen and been subject to “racism”, or other forms of negative discrimination due to my race and my nationality?
Oct 11th, 2007
Last Aussie in Burwong
I wasn’t racist until immigrants started wiping out Australian culture. Instead of becoming Australian they continue to speak foreign languages and put up shop signs in foreign languages. In my area of Sydney a huge number of Australian homes have been bulldozed and in their place massive apartment blocks have been built. The inhabitants are nearly all immigrants. Too many immigrants, too fast, wipes out Aussie culture. Multiculture = genocide for Aboriginal and all other true Aussies.
Oct 12th, 2007
Geoff
Peter…
“A SUPREME Court judge has condemned the “insane” bloodlust of group violence when dealing with two young men who killed a Sudanese refugee by slashing him with a smashed bottle.”
“Sean Grant, for Simpas, said his client had acted “on the spur of the moment” to defend his friend. The younger man’s counsel said his Syrian-born client, who had experienced a “significant culture clash” since coming to Australia, was remorseful.”
Speaks for itself.
Oct 12th, 2007
CORAL
Last Aussie:
You make an excellent point. If there was a referendum on whether or not the government should keep bringing in migrants, I think the answer would be a resounding “No”. That’s why they don’t have one.
About 10 years ago, I had my youngest son assessed by an Educational Psychologist. He told me I must send him to one of 3 schools in Brisbane which catered for gifted children.
One was not far from UQ and contained mostly Asian children and the kids of university professors. The other 2 were on the southside and had large Asian populations. All 3 schools were in areas where housing was extremely expensive – but they were all public schools.
My son and I joined the Queensland Association for Gifted and Talented Children, and I attended their annual conference.
It was opened by a music ensemble from the most prestigious of the 3 schools. All of the students involved were of non-white racial origin, except for one little white girl fairly well hidden down the back. There were no aboriginal children.
When I spoke with the Guidance Officer at our local school, she was very well aware of many other special privileges provided in this “foreign” school, and was quite disgusted that she was unable to provide the same for my son and others with similar needs.
Even if I could have afforded to move, I would not have wanted my son educated in one of those schools.
In Year 2, he was the only boy chosen for the Strings Program at the local school. At that other school, he probably would have been discriminated against based on his race.
Oct 12th, 2007
red crab
question.
if the govt of the day imports ppl from other countrys gives them things to get them started in this country that im either not elegeble or not intiteled to because iv worked 60 houres a week for 45years to own my own home and a small amount of money saved .
thease ppl get a housing comision home before some that have been waiting for years for free medical that iv payed for
free school that i have had to pay for my kids to get an education etc etc etc
where do you get off accusing me of being a racist because i object to some things.
it would seem to me that in australia to day there are the minoriy groups who would make up mabe 5% of the country and the rest of us are racist.
i for one who dose not mind sharing everything we have to help those less fortunate dislike the idea of being called a racist every time some minority group cant get there own way.
Oct 12th, 2007
muzzmonster
I’m not calling you racist red; I’m calling you wrong.
Neither migrants nor refugees get these things you mention – unless a charity such as the church decides to help some of those in need.
Many migrants often pay thousands of dollars just to apply to come and live in Australia.
Some refugees are locked up for years and sometimes later charged for the privilege.
Oct 12th, 2007
CORAL
Well I’m calling red crab right.
Unfortunately, the racial minority groups are quickly becoming more of a collective majority, and there seems to be jack-all we ordinary folk can do about it.
Oct 12th, 2007
Donna
He wouldn’t have been discriminated against Coral.
I know the schools you are talking about.
The culture within those schools are not discriminatory.
Oct 12th, 2007
Naomi Cartledge
Coral, this may come as a shock to both you and ‘Last Aussie in Burwong’ and others, that the first fleet included people from 13 nationalities. People from Afghanistan were here years and years ago, hence the train from South? Australia to Alice Springs is called The Ghan. If the original inhabitants had your ideas many of us wouldn’t be here. Not only was it considered that Australia was not inhabitated, they had to go to court and give a ‘good’ reason/s why they should have rights over their land/s. How would you like to have to justify your existence in your own town or house?
If you ventured to find out about immigration, you’d find that for 200 years, people from other countries have been sent/sought/encouraged/paid & welcomed here – if not- the Snowy River Hydro Electric Scheme would not have happened and the Opera House would not be here today – just 2 of heaps of examples. Our system of Parliament is based on the Westminster system(British) as is the justice system. Due to governments’ deafness(15-20 years at least) re lack of present and future skills we have a skills shortage, due also to increases in university and TAFE courses, plus a lack apprenticeships; there is a huge gap. One of the reasons mounted as to why the cost of housing has escallated – shortage of tradespeople! Nurse shortages, doctors(govt.decision)?
With your racist attitudes to the ’special school’ in Brisbane, I’m glad your kids weren’t attending when mine were-my eldest son would have enjoyed debating yours. African kids “swinging like monkeys” out of buses. Sounds like the same type who made ‘monkey sounds’ when Andrew Symonds was on the cricket pitch! Truly! You’re prejudices are so ingrained you just can’t help yourself. Go and read Henry Reynolds book, ‘This whispering in our Hearts’ about indigenous injustices, or ‘Veiled Courage’ about women from Afghanistan, just two of heaps. Have a look at http://www.rawa.org-people spoke like you in the 1950-60’s. It’s time!
Oct 13th, 2007
red crab
muzzmonster,
sorry to correct you but most reffugees who are given asylem are provided with free medical centrelink payments ,rent assistance free schooling for the kids and for some free english lessions .
now i dont object to that at all.
but as ive sead that some ppl no mater where they have come from who have worked most of there lives to build a life and a country do object to the way that some new ppl who have just arrived seem to expect these things are there rite .
now you explane to me how to tell someone who has worked all there lives that they are not intiteled to anything because they have worked hard and saved a few dollars
Oct 13th, 2007
Donna
Red Crab
I’m glad you don’t have a problem with refugees having access to health care and education in the way of very underfunded English classes.
However, have you had access to these people? Have they personally said to you they ‘expect these things are their right’?
Oct 13th, 2007
CORAL
Donna:
I rely on the evidence of my own eyes and the wisdom of the Guidance Officer.
Naomi:
The schools I was describing were not “special schools”, but public primary schools, at least one of which has been hijacked by wealthy immigrants, including Asians.
The only thing that comes as a shock to me is the way in which you treat other posters.
Oct 13th, 2007
Donna
The guidance officer isn’t here to represent her comments.
There’s no doubt that Ironside gets a lot of funding. And it’s nothing to do with the racial mix.
I highly doubt the guidance officer referred to this school as ‘foreign’.
Besides, there’s lots of white kids at that school.
Is it truly so bad that Asian students are integrating so well in our society? Are these kids better at our culture than we are?
Oct 13th, 2007
CORAL
You’ve got the wrong school, Donna.
Oct 14th, 2007
Donna
No I haven’t Coral
That was one of the three schools you were referring to.
Oct 14th, 2007
Adele
Coral said “Social and medical concerns are not racism. I find that people want to bandy the term “racism” about, whenever they have no valid argument.”
You’re right, social and medical concerns are not racism. Making racist attacks on a group of people is racism. I find people who make racist arguments often try to deny their racism by complaining about called racist. Apparently, it’s OK to continually make racist remarks, but it’s not OK to point out that those remarks are racist.
Geoff said “Throwing around the racist slur has been a tool of the progressive Left for decades to intinidate an vilify others into silence.”
Being called racist may well be a slur, but that does not automatically make it untrue. Making racist statements, and then trying to deflect criticism by saying “how dare you call me racist, you’re just trying to silence me” has been a tool of racists for decades, particularly when they have no valid argument – whether they are of the right or the left is irrelevant.
Oct 14th, 2007
Geoff
Gee Adele, one would think that if you didn’t silence them, people would then know if they were a racist or not. But lying about it is hardly helpful. Oh and if you think that the Right-wing have been vilifying people as racists over the last 20 years, I’d sure like to see a few quotes to prove the irrelevance.
Oct 14th, 2007
Donna
right wing … left wing … it’s not relevant Geoff.
At the end of the day, YOU, as an individual, need to come up with some answers to justify YOUR comments, without name-calling.
Oct 15th, 2007
CORAL
Claims of racism are little more than juvenile name-calling. The worst form of racism is that directed at one’s own kind.
Oct 15th, 2007
CORAL
Donna:
It isn’t the school with the music ensemble that had only one little white girl well hidden down the back; or the one the Guidance Officer was complaining about; or the one I thought would discriminate against my son on racial grounds.
The school was not Ironside!
Oct 15th, 2007
Geoff
I do justify my comments Donna and I’m not name calling.
I’m sure if I do Andrew will censor it out.
Anytime you feel like it… refute me factually.
Oct 15th, 2007
Donna
Coral
This is what you’ve written:
‘One was not far from UQ and contained mostly Asian children and the kids of university professors. The other 2 were on the southside and had large Asian populations. All 3 schools were in areas where housing was extremely expensive – but they were all public schools… It was opened by a music ensemble from the most prestigious of the 3 schools.’
You’re talk’n about Ironside young lady.
Oct 16th, 2007
Adele
Coral said “Claims of racism are little more than juvenile name-calling.”
If someone else makes comments you believe to be racist, why is it juvenile to point that out?
What description are we supposed to use to describe racist comments, if calling them racist means we are told we are ‘name-calling’?
Is the term ‘racist’ now not allowed to be used as a way of gagging those who are anti-racist?
Oct 16th, 2007
Geoff
I call racists racist Adele, well not frequently, usually I call them stupid or wrong and then prove why they are.
But you shouldn’t call people who are not racists racist.
Just because an issue involves people of different racial heritage doesn’t mean any comment involving those people is racist. You need to be able to identify the difference.
Racial does not equate to racist.
Oct 16th, 2007
CORAL
Donna:
That isn’t all that my post #32 said, but it seems you’re unable to understand what you read – and you know better than I do which school had the music ensemble which opened the conference ATTENDED BY ME.
It was a school on the southside (name of school deleted by moderator), and I am not one of your students, here to be called “young lady” whenever you feel like putting me down.
I am a highly intelligent middle-aged woman, no doubt with better comprehension skills than yours.
adele:
You deem every comment you don’t agree with to be racist. You’re not on your own in doing it either. As usual, you have succeeded in deflecting the debate from the real issues.
Oct 17th, 2007
me
you are all racist and wrong!
listen up…
the ‘last aussie in burra-thing’ person said such racist comments it is shoking. The reason why people come here to Australia is to seek a better life in which to live in. When they arrive they get ninsece from people like you saying they are speaking their foreign language and taking away ausie culture etc. That is so wrong, is u went over to a country- be it whatever country you like whom speak a different language then you- you would be triying to speak their language but would also have to be making a living by opening up your own shop with -what? OH YEAH YOUR LANGUAGE WRITING ON THE FRONT! you would be speaking to your family in your own language but new you moved their 4 a better life and hence attempt to learn the dialect their. You believe this place was wonderful prior to going their however when you arrive you realise there are stupid half brained people saying you are taking away their culture!! all you want to do is make a living and own a little block of land in which you will have a shop and house for your family to live in! SO GROW UP A BIT AND THINK OF IT IN THEIR PERSPECTIVE. WE SHOULD BE ENCOURAGING OTHERS COMIONG FROM ELSEWERE TO COME TO OUR COUNTRY AND STOP THIS NONSENCE TALK!!!!
Oct 18th, 2007
Donna
I think post 54 is worth putting on the top of the comments list.
Oct 18th, 2007
togret
Adele – I have to agree with you – a common definition of “racism” seems to be difficult to pin down judging by the comments here.
I’ve noticed lately quite a few comments here and elsewhere like “All …. (fill in the space with the name of a group of people) … are …. (fill in some characteristic like “studious, grasping, lazy, generous, likeley to be carrying a nasty disease” etc etc.) I’m surprised that people who are capable of conncting to a chat room like this are so ill-informed, but also that they believe themselves to be so unassailably correct that they spruik such opinions on the website of someone known for tolerance and decency.
Or is that why they do it? Adrenaline junkies who like to stir things up by publishing opinions they can’t say without fear of shame elsewhere?
Very strange, human beings.
Oct 18th, 2007
CORAL
togret:
That isn’t a very nice thing to say about posters you would clearly prefer to silence.
I will reiterate the fact that we don’t have the infrastructure in place to support a continuing influx of migrants.
Perhaps if the government was more responsible in this regard, some people would be less hostile.
Oct 19th, 2007
me
Coral:
Can you please justify ‘government being more responsible’. I believe nobody in this chat place is being discriminated by hostile posters. If you believe somebody is then you address who they are and why in a civilised manner. If you are speaking of me i will be happily open to hear your opinion.
Oct 19th, 2007
togret
Coral, I live in SOuth Australia- we are in a very bad situation with regard to water. I am not sure we shuld continue to bring in anybody new until we clean up our act on water use, e.g. government assistance to such shocking activities as growing rice or cotton here. We just don’t have the climate for it. Also 200 years of pastoral and agricultural bumbling.
And yes, health, and education do need urgent attention.
However, that has nothing to do with the merits or otherwise of any particular group of people. You consistently single out groups of people such as traditionally oriented Aboriginal people in Nth Qld (whom you accused of not being interested in education for their kids) and Asians, whom you accused of clogging up the health system.
I agree with you that governments need to be more responsible for making sure our infrastructure is capable of delivering the services we are all entitled to. What I wouldn’t like to see is discrimination against the newly-arrived, or indeed any particular group.
Once you start saying “asians” or “aboriginal people” are this or that, you open yourself up to a charge of racism. It’s not a matter of silencing you, Coral, just a matter of pointing out that what you say in such cases is racist.
If I were to consistently say “rich people all have such and such a characteristic based solely on their wealth” I’d be classist, or if I said “men are all like this or that based solely on their biology” I’d be sexist. (Unless it was a physiological fact.)
Say what you like, Coral, but be prepared for how others will respond; don’t try to howl others down by claiming they said what they didn’t.
Oct 20th, 2007
me
I solemnly agree with togret. Togret has a rather good point and i believe all should respect that and understand her/his opinion.
Oct 20th, 2007
CORAL
Some people contributing here would do well to take their own advice. There are plenty of insults and unwarranted abuse coming from those who support migration.
It isn’t my fault most of the Aboriginal people in Normanton are not interested in their children’s education; nor is it my fault that the wards are so filled with migrants (mostly Asian) that people who have lived here all their lives can’t get any treatment.
Please don’t confuse facts with faults – or racism with government irresponsibility.
Oct 21st, 2007
me
Thank you for your honest response, Donna.
Oct 21st, 2007
Naomi Cartledge
Coral – you are totally amazing. When someone disagrees with you they’re accused of treating you badly. If you don’t want people to disagree, don’t blog. This country still resembles some form of democracy doesn’t it? Freedom to disagree?
“It isn’t my fault most of the Aboriginal people in Normanton are not interested in their children’s education; nor is it my fault that the wards are so filled with migrants (mostly Asian) that people who have lived here all their lives can’t get any treatment”.
How do you know about what aboriginal people in Normanton feel about their kids’ education? Just another grand sweeping statement that you surely must know someone will disagree.As for the other grand sweeping statement about Asians in hospitals. How do you know that they haven’t been here all their lives?
You still didn’t address the numbers of migrants who came here on the 1st fleet, from 13 different countries – some were Asian and their descendants get sick and need hospital care!
The people who defended the alleged incidents of criminal behaviour among the people from Sudan were not Sudanese people. One was the Victorian Commissioner of Police, Christine Nixon, another was Anna Bligh, Premier of Queensland. Not much said by Kevin Andrews, about the young man who was murdered being an 18 year old Sudanese person, and his killers were white!Even when you’re a victim of brutal racism resulting in your murder it’s still OK to be blamed apparently. The ’secret and confidential information’ that Andrews quoted probably came from the same place as the information about Dr Haneef. Now that’s racism -pure and simple! Can’t be defended or denied. If it was done to you, would it be unjust? Of course it would!
Oct 22nd, 2007
me
just like Naomi said, it would be unjust if it was done by you Coral. That is the truth so except it. There is so much racism in the world and Australia. People think Australia is a racist- free freedom of speech type country and it can be if there weren’t aggressive racists among the good civilians. We should welcome everyone and not scare them away.
Oct 23rd, 2007
CORAL
A poster can put a point across without treating others badly.
I don’t have to accept other people’s ideas of the truth – especially those who don’t know me.
Oct 25th, 2007
me
of course we don’t know you coral; however we know the opinions that you post and are reacting to them only. nobody is discriminating you as a person or thinking about that but you.
Oct 25th, 2007