unfinished business for the Stolen Generations
Today marks the tenth anniversary of the Bringing Them Home report, a detailed document produced after a comprehensive inquiry. This report is also known as the Stolen Generations report, as it documents at great length the facts about the widespread practice of government authorities removing Aboriginal children from their parents, purely on the basis of their skin colour or their perceived ancestry. This practice was carried out by consecutive Australian governments at federal and state level over the greater part of the twentieth century. It is only one aspect of a wide range of practices involving the separation of families and tribal groups, removal from country and destruction of culture, identity and language.
There are many events around the country marking the tenth anniversary of the Bringing Them Home report, linking into other events marking the fortieth anniversary of the 1967 referendum. I spent Friday in Darwin meeting with and listening to many members of Stolen Generations associations from northern and central parts of the Territory, including some people who had travelled up from as far away as Alice Springs. In recent years I have tried to read more of the history of last century, but it never compares to meeting with people who lived through those times and hearing their stories directly. It is a privilege – albeit sometimes a confronting one – to be able to hear some of these deeply personal experiences.
I also paid a brief visit to St Martin de Porres, the Aboriginal church in Darwin. It is one of the ironies of the history of the Stolen Generations that some of the churches who ran some of the missions which facilitated the practice of removing children now provide a strong source of comfort, and indeed a sense of family, for many of those who were taken from and will now never know their own mothers and families.
It is extraordinary that, in the face of the living breathing evidence and histories of so many people, that some in Australia still seek to deny the reality of the Stolen Generations and the practices that created it. So many of the problems Indigenous people are confronted with today are linked to the immense and often still unresolved trauma and dislocation. Personally, I can’t see how we can hope to properly address those problems without being aware of all the things that contributed to them.
The Bringing Them Home report contained a package of 54 recommendations aimed at addressing the enormous harm that has been caused. A number of these of these were adopted and implemented – some of them to a clearly beneficial effect. But many of these were explicitly rejected by the federal government.
To me, the worst aspect of the response from the Prime Minister and some of his senior Ministers over the years has not been in the refusal to adopt any particular recommendations, but rather their deliberate effort to downplay or dispute the reality of the Stolen Generations. It is a terrible thing that a view has been allowed, and perhaps even encouraged, to take hold that suggests the whole thing is some exaggerated or made up. Imagine the difference it would make if the Prime Minister would publicly dismiss those media elites who seek to deny the historical and present day reality of the Stolen Generations.
There was also a very well attended event in the Great Hall of Parliament House on Thursday of this week. It featured a very powerful speech from Lowitja O’Donohue plus a number of other contributions. There were many federal politicians there, including Indigenous Affairs Minister Mal Brough who also spoke, along with Health Minister Tony Abbott and shadow Minister Jenny Macklin. I have to say that, while there were parts of his speech I thought missed the point, I do feel Mal Brough has a genuine commitment to this area and is trying to give it the priority it deserves. However, I also have to say I think the way he is approaching things in some cases is making the chances of success much harder than it would otherwise be.
I chalked up a pile of greenhouse emissions going from Canberra to Darwin (via Sydney) and then home to Brisbane (via Cairns) the next day. I attended another Sorry Day function at the Kuril Dhagun Indigenous knowledge centre at the new Queensland State Library. They have a series of events over the coming weeks and months, many of which would be very much worth attending for anyone wanting to expand their knowledge about our country’s history.
40 Comments, Comment or Ping
Les
why arent the aboriginals represented in parliment. The christians are, independants too. the abs should have one seat in the senate at least.
May 26th, 2007
Daniel
It is an indictment of Australian politics and, Australian political parties in particular, that there hasn’t been an indigenous member of Federal Parliament since Aden Ridgway lost his seat.
On a side note, the Australian Democrats need to remove his page from their website. He is still listed as a member of parliament. See http://www.democrats.org.au/people/index.htm?person_id=73&display=1&level=1 for details.
May 27th, 2007
Evil Pundit
A speech from Lowitja O’Donohue about the Fake Generations?
That’s hilariously ironic. She was one of the many Aborigines who claimed to have been “stolen” — then was later revealed not to have been stolen at all.
She is the poster child for this sad example of politically-inspired historical fantasy.
May 28th, 2007
Andrew Bartlett
Can’t help yourself, can you EP? Are you channelling Andrew Bolt, or are you going to assert some facts for once?
I wish you could come along to one of these meetings – let people come up to you and tell you their own stories, their search for their parents or siblings – (for many a fruitless search), how they were told their parents were dead, prevented from speaking their language, etc etc.
Then you could tell them all that they’re making the whole thing up.
But I guess it’s much easier just to make anonymous smears baldly denying a historical reality which is heavily documented and widely acknowledged – even the federal government does this, when they’re not dog-whistling to bigots.
May 28th, 2007
Evil Pundit
Just as it’s easy for you to deny the situation of fathers and children harmed sexist family laws, Andrew.
Why should I listen to the stories of your favoured minority, when you so casually dismiss mine?
When the hand-wringing faux-compassionistas of Left stop being such utterly bigoted hypocrites, I might care to listen to their little stories once more. Until then, tough titties.
May 28th, 2007
Andrew Bartlett
You really should grow up, EP. They’re not my stories, they are the stories of fathers, children and mothers seriously harmed by racist laws. All your comment does is confirm that you are not interested in listening the truth at all, you’re just going to chant your knowingly dishonest mantra that it’s all a ‘fantasy’, regardless of the evidence – which is a bit of a waste of your critical faculties, and rather discourages anyone from paying any real attention to what you have to say.
I’ve never denied that some fathers suffer harm as result of family law proceedings, I just dispute that it is predominantly the result of so-called ’sexist’ laws. In addition, the Parliament has recently made a range of major changes to these laws as a direct result of concerns which are not dissimilar to those you have voiced from time to time.
These comprehensive responses are far more than what Parliaments or governments have bothered to do in the face of far more evidence about much greater harms committed unequivocally and knowingly by a range of governments to the Stolen Generations, (let along other equally well documented wrongs such as Stolen Wages which have also produced grossly inadequate recompense).
May 28th, 2007
dnco
Sydney ,referred by the local Aborigines as “Warrane”,has been inhabited for at least 50,000 years.50,000 year old
grindstones been found in the area recently, predating any previous finds worldwide…read more
May 29th, 2007
doctor victor kacala
was there a ’stolen’ generation? there is ample evidence, in gov files as policy, that oz was, and sadly still is, a racially divided country.
however, in this case i agree, in pART with the evil pun-dit. how about looking to the here & now starting with aboriginal oz people as first among equals? a good statement would be for oz to have the aboriginal flag as the OFFICIAL oz flag – this would be a statement of intent.
what should the oz gov DO? i have given an outline to TIGA=”tiger” of what could/should be done in the areas of governance & education & economics. the key step is to get people of integrity & competence in the relevant area of duty in a new council.
at the moment, white GURUS do NOT empower, but rather subvert via corrupt payments [i.e., 'conservation' groups claim they are the good guys] or by taking over admin’ functions or are selective in the info they present as facts. gov should compensate, a FAIR value for such things as ‘lost’ wages & lost potential wealth, based on average oz wealth.
this will be expensive only ONCE – this can serve as a capital base for business as outlined by a number of ab’ leaders [esp' eco tourism, banking, rangers, art & fashion etc.].
a key step is to assign ALL copy rights to ALL ab’ art works AND genetic material.
ab’ people are genetically SUPERIOR to us white people. how do i know? simple. 60 thousand years of VERY harsh ethnic cleansing by the HARSH oz outback [per "Dune" books].
as it turns out, some women i know seem to be aware of this fact i.e., they had love child & got to keep the child.
oz ab’ people are not inferior, they are superior FOR the oz outback?
is this rascist? no. it is premised on evolutionAry process, as outlined with gusto by dawkins etC…
May 29th, 2007
doctor victor kacala
i have just read a book called “elements of justice”, 2006, CUP. it might be useful if one of your ‘advisors’ read this as back ground for any debate about justice in this arena. do some aboriginal people lie to gain advantage? of course.
this does NOT de-value very significant social dis-advantage that was the result of a rascist & harsh history of gov & social systems [listen to n. bonner first speech to parliament].
May 29th, 2007
Marilyn Shepherd
I have just been to a packed house for the inaugural Don Dunstan oration with Lowitja O’Donohue as the speaker, actually it is the new Lowtija O’Donohue oration and she is indeed a national treasure.
EP, you are a nasty piece of work aren’t you and I dare you to try and fathom losing your mum when you are 2 years old, being forced into unpaid domestic training from the age of 16, having your wages withheld for the rest of your life, taking on the establishment for the right to be a nurse and then being a human rights advocate for the next 50 years with a dignity, love and respect for her fellow man.
Lowtija and Don Dunstan are two of South Australia’s greatest people so it is fitting that the Don Dunstan foundation started this oration.
We were hijacked with an aboriginal and white choir at the end singing
Black and white together,
we shall overcome.
and not an eye in the house was dry.
My god, anyone who picks on this woman is a scumbag.
May 29th, 2007
Evil Pundit
As usual, Andrew Bolt gets it right:
All your fake compassion achieves is to make you feel good. It does nothing for Aborigines, who are the real victims of the “stolen generation” myth. Today’s abused Aboriginal children in remote communities can’t be rescued because of the promotion of that myth.
It’s all about posturing and hypocrisy.
May 30th, 2007
Andrew Bartlett
As usual, Andrew Bolt (and EP it seems) struggle to get it even half-right.
To borrow a phrase from Mr Bolt himself, his commentary shows all the hallmarks of “reason-rotting hate”. Until he (and EP it seems) gets over your hatred of whoever it is you perceive ‘the Left’ to be and whatever it is you want to pretent they believe, you won’t get very far.
Mr Bolt is all too happy to describe a symptom, but wants to ignore – indeed deny, cover up and ridicule – a key part of the cause. He clearly has no idea, and one can only assume no real interest, in what Aboriginal people think and believe – whether they live in cities or in remote areas. His notion that everybody would be fine, no matter what their experiences history or culture, if only people accpeted their choice to be just like him is laughable in any human context, let alone a country like Australia.
May 30th, 2007
Evil Pundit
So if Aborigines in remote areas choose to rape their own children, we should accept that choice and blame Andrew Bolt for their problems?
I think it’s time we stopped being racist, and treated dysfunctional Aboriginal families the same way we treat dysfunctional white families. Rescue the kids and punish the abusers.
Myths about “genocide” and “oppression” and “stolen generations” are being used as excuses for behaviour that otherwise wouldn’t be tolerated. Attitudes such as yours perpetuate the problem by allowing communities and families to avoid responsibility for their own actions.
Jun 1st, 2007
Andrew Bartlett
Yes, it is time you and your fellow travellers stopped being racist, EP (it also breaches the comment policy on this blog). It would be wonderful if the same level of effective appropriate services and assistance was available for abused Indigenous kids as it is for other abused kids – the same as it would be good if Indigenous people got genuine equality with other Australians before the law, the same access to other appropriate essential services, the same access to genuine justice, the same amount of access to our systems of governance oand political processes. Instead, most of what we are getting from governments is 50 year old, reheated assimilation policies which produced half of the problems that are present today.
You know that that the stolen generation and the widespread oppression of Indigneous Australians are well established, heavily documented historical facts. Your continuing insistence on labelling these facts as “myths” just shows you are quite happy to brazenly and deliberately lie.
I can’t be bothered speculating on why you insist on pushing such patent lies, let alone ones so enormously offensive and inflammatory. Once it becomes apparent that a person has such deliberate contempt for even the most basic of truths, it hardly matters what their motivation is, as it becomes pointless paying attention to anything they say.
It also shows your supposed concern for these children is all about posturing and hypocrisy – you don’t give a rat’s about them, you’re just using their plight as a vehicle for spreading your prejudice.
Jun 1st, 2007
dr victor kacala
nicely put andrew. i agree. sadly, there are many who gain social credit by using the ‘weak’ as a vehicle for social credit [this happens globally].
the gov has failed miserably in the past, & continues to do so. a key issue is that gov agencies are grossly incompetent in giving the tools of power to ab’ people & the great un-washed masses [sadly, at a global level]. the quality of pollies [wrt INTEGRITY & competence] is nothing short of miserable.
how can we improve the quality of our pollies? i have given a number of ideas on various web sites & to andrew. u do not have to agree, just make sure that it is a measured response [i.e., do your research & check key facts].
i often hear ‘market’ solutions to social problems, for ab’, other indigenous people & ‘the’ poor generally.
when are the ‘free’ market pundits going to learn? [esp' fat cats in gov agencies, including lab' state gov$$$].
markets are BUILT by a implicit & explicit set of rules & associated physicAL tools. for example, a carbon trading system [global] must be built – the current versions i know of are a disaster waiting to happen. sadly, well- intended incompetents, such as p. garrot, are all passion & no system design SKILL.
i heard prof’ peter dixon & mckibbon on these matters – they are NOT up to the task [dixon IS up to the task of testing a SIMULATION of a global system - i have a great deal of respect for his ability & people & resources to undertake this CRUCIAL task, as a manager i.e., he will need input from ALL major carbon trading countries].
any design from the ‘free’ market will be a social disaster.
markets do not just ‘appear’ at a global level. we require decisive action by all players AT A GOV LEVEL, with some SAVAGE actions against global thieves in the finance & energy arenas.
as a first cut, dixon was spot on. a good basis solution = taxes, ’some’ prices rises & active promotion of energy saving at all levels of demand.
Jun 2nd, 2007
Evil Pundit
It is to be expected that you’d use one of the Left’s favourite tactics to silence dissent, Andrew — falsely labelling me as “racist” because I refuse to kowtow to your own racist mythology.
It is people like you who allow the horrible conditions at remote communities to continue, because you refuse to acknowledge that their real causes or cures are not external, but lie with those responsible — the community members who commit the acts of abuse and neglect. You just blame whitey — in a typically racist fashion. And you smear those who dissent your tired, cliché abuse.
False claims of “racism” have been overused, to the extent that nobody even takes the word seriously anymore. Another legacy of your abuse of truth and words.
Stop trying to paint Aborigines as helpless innocent victims, stop smearing whites as evil, exploitive aggressors. Shed those racist blinkers and take a good look at the real world, and you’ll see real solutions to real problems.
Jun 2nd, 2007
Andrew Bartlett
Your continued insistence on repeating deliberate and offensive lies make any of your other opinions worthless, EP.
Your’re the one who has been enthusiastically advocating censorship in some of your recent comments, EP. I’m “silencing” you so ruthlessly that I’m letting your bigoted deluded rantings appear repeatedly on my website.
Saying that everything is solely up to the individual and everything that has occured which put them in their situation is irrelevant is just a cop-out which ignores evidence, reality and human nature (which is something you’re clearly quite skilled at doing I guess). Similarly, saying that the individual bears no responsibility for dealing with their situation of for their own actions is equally unrealistic.
I’m sorry that you seem incapable of holding more than one concept in your head at any one time, but most people recognise that disadvantage and inequality, can have a range of causes and a range of solutions.
I’m not surprised that the concept of racims is meaningless to you, EP. But denying it doesn’t make it disappear, the same as denying the historical facts of the Stolen Generations and the dispossession, forced relocation, interment and killing of Indigenous Australians doesn’t mean they didn’t happen or have massive consequences. You aren’t unique in this of course – it’s a human trait to try to deny unpleasant facts. There are plenty of examples of genocide denials around the world.
Perahps you should apply your dishonest doctrine of total individual responsibility to the complete exclusion of any causative factors to the separated fathers whose plight you are continually blaming the ’sexist’ Family Court for.
Jun 2nd, 2007
ken
Dr Vicotr – although I often demean our polllies sarcastically do you actually know any personanlly that is, or in a work environment?
I have known and worked with many over the years, your gross generalisation is just off the mark – like any group thgey have strentghts and weaknessess – but most are competnet and very very few would fall inot the caetgory of miserabley lacking integrity. In fact in most cases the opposite applies. Particualry i our own dear Senator.
It is the continual restating of such generalisaiotns by people such as you, supported generally by a mediocre and lazy popuilar press seeking to find easy problems that contributes to the problem – not solves it.
Dont get excited Andrew =- normal bashing to resume shortly.
Jun 5th, 2007
doctor victor kacala
dear ken, is it a gross generalization? not at all. how are polly candidates selected? what is the social processes that they go thru [education & life experience]. how dominant are the ‘religous’ influences? do they have a BASIS in ethics to support & govern how to form policy & ’strategy’?
thus, while one or two pollies here & there may have COURAGE & integrity, any given polly is constrained by the group action. within any given group/party, there are dominant players who pull the levers of power. these dominant players are promoted via power players behind the scenes pulling the strings. there are many ways to pull strings in social exchange systems, across the globe & across time & across any party of any description.
over the years we have seen an ever greater concentration on money [credit in all its forms], social guru status, and a far greater power base for our great friend & buddy & protector, the USA. who controls the usa? lobby groups?
so, even if the sun shone out of andrews but AND he is the smartest person who ever lived, it would make NO dif to the rest of the polly process. he depends on info & data flows the same as every one else [such as u & i]; if those data & info flows are biased, or captive to [say] a set of elites around the globe, then it does NOT matter how smart or ethicAl any given polly is or is not, decisions/policies/actions will be sub-optimal in the social sense of the word.
it is for this reason, i am so critical of ‘terror’ laws, media concentration [local & global], security services [who act as instruments of terror, such as cia/kgb/etc...], advisors, academia & so on.
i have lost interest in oz as an idea, after all, all nations are a ‘invention’. our high courts lack an imagination & fail to protect those at the bottom of the pile from gov agencies, elites [of money or social credit or military etc...], foreign security services, religions [of any description] and so on.
Jun 6th, 2007
doctor victor kacala
imagine there are two nations with the names usa & user, who have leaders george & pewtin. pewtin & george do not agree – the usa & user are in a strong & weak eco position resp’. george is a leader in name only & is a person of ABSOLUTE faith in his version of god & others give him polcy options & facts – george thinks users are the evil people & the usa is a land of the free & fair [at least this is his views in public].
pewtin knows user was & has its evil elements & is subject to ‘attack’ from traitors within. over time, the usa will be in a totally dominant position, if the usar are allowed to complete a defence against system against user. of course, george states we defend against ‘other’ terror nations such as abc & xyz.
what should pewtin do? pewtin knows that george is a mere puppet for goys=”we are chosen by GOD”, the real power.
if pewtin allows george to finish the defence systems, usa will totally dominant over all aspects of tech & eco FOREVER.
what george does NOT know is that user has a FULLY operational system in place, ready to go. if pewtin does not act ’soon’, then the usar will eventually win by eco subversion and or a nuke strike with bunker-busters & other advanced weapons.
pewtin’s moral issue is: “can i strike with out becoming the very thing i attack?”
yes, IFF a clear warning is given [to all GOYS].
george is clearly lying & the threat is real based on the evidence [pewtin does not believe george when he says that “i am YOUR friend!” etc…].
of course, the above is only a story, not meant to represent any real world situation.
in a recent article i posted on the abc, i noted that data, info & ideas are controlled by ‘elites’, at a global level [direct & in-direct]. i have also given a SOLUTION of HOW to fix global systems of governance. i have given a framework of THE tech to do the job – so far, goys have done a great job in blocking [in-direct & direct] of these systems.
Jun 6th, 2007
ken
All very nice Vic but you didn’t answer the question
Jun 6th, 2007
victor kacala
ken=u ?:=:”although I often demean our polllies sarcastically do you actually know any personanlly that is, or in a work environment?”
i ‘kmow’ andrew? there is only ONE thing i need to KNOW about any person of any age e.g., do they have COURAGE=integrity + a sense of fair play”?”.
do u know u*self? to learn some thing means to change u or i or U&i in a pos or neg sense of the word.
i ‘know’ the abc/rn is RUN by a pack of fascists? how do i know? they modify or edit or delete my imput from the public domain.
this is a funDAmental attack on fair pLAY & exCHANGE in ideas between oz people.
this is as basic an attack on freedom as u can get. i do NOT ask andrew to agree with i, i ask that he does NOT edit or modify or delete=exclude what i think.
do i know i*SOUL? no. i ‘know’ pollies by LISTENinG to their mode of speech, & other visual forms etC & their actIon$$$. i sawm costello last night interviewed by the big blue on abc last night. what did i see & hear? i heard controllED aggro from blue – costello, if u cannot stand the heat, GET OFF THE$ AIR, do NOT waste blue’s valuable time.
summary=PATHeTIKc^***I.
wrt to ‘know’ any polly, person ETc…, i let my stINK in pinKKK do the ***^i.
am i clear? mayBE notE? this gov has/is an UN-mitigated diSAstir?
of course, wee & i could be in errOR? i try to keep my errors ’small’, unless i have to act*!I.
?’s.
so, evil about is actually a ‘good’ guy, as he forms a counter POinT for andrew & any one else who reads what andrew has to say [direct & in-direct] for all who chose it so.
so, do i ‘know’ any person at all? no. but, pollies have a habit of lying via spin merchants of greed ETc, at a global level.
it is form this reason, i want out of this SH***t hoLO callED oz.
this CoUNTry has loST ITsss on a piLE gREED.
all rights of all that i outPUT * inPUT :=:copy-RIGHT$$$.
mayBEE ya get the idea?
Jun 7th, 2007
MsFuzz
Victor – how could anyone ‘get the idea’?
Your last comment is – to be blunt – a rambly incoherent burble that makes not much sense.
It also bears no relevance to the topic of this post.
Jun 7th, 2007
doctor victor kacala
u lack an imagination. maybe u should look at “elements of justice”, 2006, CUP, for some real burble.
still, this is a common facet of vegies who think they are smart, MSfuzz.
maybe u should look at “victor kacala” on google for some thing suitable for a child?
am i clear here?
Jun 7th, 2007
doctor victor kacala
what is THE grate tragedy in
“a terrible beauty”, per peter watson, 2000?
the great tragedy is that ADULTS kill the SPIrit &
soul of kids on an inter-generational basis.
why? greed, arrogance & revenge.
there have been many titles given to GURUS in human
social exCHANGE systems e.g., queen, king, duke,
count, lord, chief, and various ‘lesser’ social status
RANKsss.
the trilogy is the common feature of the human species
as long as social records can record.
people often put their kids as being divine, above
other people in their social sphere/circle. thus, a
‘prince’ is the son of a king & queen – often the
prince will become king along genetic lines: put
king:=: any title of social rank or divide e.g.,
‘doctor’=title.
this is a major error, of huge size.
i stART with the idea that:
ALL PEOPLE ARE OF EQUAL VALUE ON THE GLOBAL STAGE.
thus, any person in meet is of equal social value, in
the absence of any data or info. it very hard not to
have a pos or neg or both bias due to our unique
social history.
there is no such thing as history as defined in the
text books – ALL history is a self history, based on
facts & events as served up on the ‘valid’ records, &
personAl memories of local plays in a game.
the reason i like kids far more than adults is simple:
kids know less but they know QUALITY & are far more
tolerant of difs in people [e.g., looks, colour,
dress, smell, height, weight, sex, and so on.
our social systems of rank & status are grossly unfair
e.g., in religous organs.
‘priests’ assume they KNOW due to the fact of
indoctrination at an early age. in a basic sense,
religions are the anti-thesis of REASON & justice.
we had better make the changes people, else we are all
headed into a greater hell or tragedy than is our
systems of social genocide of the human mind.
even such ‘religions’ as buddhism [a theory of reason]
& science [especially social sciences] are dogma
Jun 14th, 2007
doctor victor kacala
is evil pun-dit a rascist? in my view, no. it is common for well-intended gurus to dis-miss the ‘enemy’s’ view.
this is a very well-known strategy of peace & war & fair debate – always respect your enemy, they MAY be right or left.
as i have said else-where, evil pundit serves as a very useful counter point – i often agree with the ‘evil’ gal & *guy*.
evil & good have many faces, that is INDEPENDENT of race [a doubt-FULL concept at the best of times], sex, sexuality, state, FAmiLY etC…
so, attack ideas, rather than the person.
i DO attack gurus who hold them selves out as the fair & reasonABLE people. for example, i have john coward, gwb, blair and some people from the ABC/rn.
i took a long handle to r. kohn with CLEAR intent & measure – she holds herself out as some one who is FAIR & who promotes links between religions & ‘other’ secular people, such as p. adames.
i DID attack her DUE to her guru status AND BIAS & superior form of lies i.e., u can not attack me because i am a NICE person. she holds a position of great POWER on abc’s religion & ethics corner – there fore i have NO compunction in giving all that she has EARNED!
some one on abc & this bLOG cut my comment. since i have spent a great deal of time on fair systems of trade in ideas & things, i think that my view should have been allowed to stand [i COULD be wrong].
i do NOT think i am right or wrong, i think i have a BAsic right to have my views seen/heard.
further, it is a very inFORMed view, rather than the hysterical slander that i see on commercial stations.
Jun 19th, 2007
doctor victor kacala
some notes on my views on FAIR public trade & exchange of ideas. ideas form the basis for all actions/in-action that guide u & i actions. at times SILENCE can form tacit support for unFAIR actions. who controls debate sets the agenda for all the sheep, such as u & i. this has very real and often tragic results for people at the bottom of the pile.
i saw the media report last night.
were some of the comments on commercial media ’slander’, vicious, racist etC?
yes.
i saw a general attack on GROUPS of people, such as blacks, lebo’s, various other ME people, and so on.
i attach a comment that is an attack on the IDEAS of some people who hold them selves out as the moral=ethicAl gurus of OUR collective sole.
my views are ’similar to p. adams, but i do NOT reject the idea of god[s]. i reject the various versions of god that are the basis for ALL religions i.e., i attack ALL gurus of ANY breed or group.
this is a comment on the process of debate in the public forum – i very much OBJECT to any edits/modifications [even 'errors'] or exclusion by face less who use un-known criteria. the abc is a CRUCIAL stone for a proper analysis & synthesis of key social issues – if U [any!] hold u self out as a GURU of fair & just play, then EXPECT a criticAl response.
if u cannot stand the heat, get off the air & stop wasting our time. for example, i attacked the DALAI lama with vigor & precision. i do NOT use the same force against lesser light – the higher u go, the harder i hit.
Jun 19th, 2007
ghost writer
U=i.
Jul 23rd, 2007
ken
But Phantom U too are a guru? So how does that compute?
Jul 23rd, 2007
syd mcleod
Wow there are some egos here, I thought this was about the stolen white children oops sorry they don’t count even though during the same period many were removed from their parents for the same reasons the black ones were. Its like white deaths in custody no body gives a shit there is no blaming somebody else while I beat myself over the head guilt trip to save myself from taking action for my own failings. And before you all open your mouths I would bet I have spent more time in the bush over a longer period then most.
And I particularly hate the black lobby that pull down my decent black friends who like the rest of us just try and get on with life rather then rely on a engineered past. Grow up move on there have been and there are at this momment far superiour role models then most of these fakirs who CLAIM they are only interested in the welfare of their ? people.
Jul 24th, 2007
dr victor kacala
yes ken, i am a ‘guru’,
but i retain a sense of humble pie.
i am in awe of kids
i.e., i think they are smarter,
more creative.
in a basic sense,
teachers & systems ‘kill’
the creative adge of kids
across the globe
on an intra-inter
generational basis.
this is the BIG genocide,
of ALL human social systems.
things will get worse,
based on the ideas of ‘our’ gurus.
do kids ever get a choice?
no.
many teachers will find this a painful insight.
still, i do NOT blame teachers,
i blame our global gurus
who FAIL to admit the error.
see ‘postman’
on “de-schooling school”.
thus, this is WHY,
on the globaljusticemovement
web-sight i have put a course
on literacy & numeracy in business
ETHICS=rules of conduct to guide FAIR
play in any game,
where the stage is any place [context].
Dec 8th, 2007
CORAL
Evil Pundit:
Aren’t you the same guy who wanted his girlfriend to have an abortion so he wouldn’t have to pay child support?
John Howard put new policies in place to disadvantage women, children and the disabled through Centrelink, Child Support Agency, Family Court and Taxation Department. I suggest you take a look at the Centrelink thread.
“Genocide”, “oppression” and “stolen generations” aren’t myths at all.
But I agree that it’s time to put “sorry” aside, and instead, for the government to provide infrastructure that will help change the ongoing sorry scenario that still exists.
Even tribal elders are saying that the aboriginal people need to take greater responsibilty for themselves and their own actions.
In the recent edition of “50 something”, there is a story on volunteers working at Hopevale (Noel Pearson country) in North Queensland.
They describe housing shortages (more than 12 to a house), no health clinic, alcoholism, teen pregnancies, inadequate school facilities, large classes and absenteeism from school.
A nurse who went there to volunteer in the (non-existent) health clinic spent all of her time listening to children read, teaching craft workshops and trying (so far unsuccessfully) to set up a Homework Centre for the kids to go to after school.
The only way forward seems to be for the government to provide much-needed infrastructure, and for the aboriginal people to take greater responsibility for their own actions/inactions – and send their kids to school.
Unless both groups do their part, no progress will occur.
BTW I thought Mal Brough lost his seat.
Last night on TV, a female magistrate had decided that it was okay for 9 males to rape a 10-year-old aboriginal girl and walk free, leaving her psychologically traumatised.
Dec 11th, 2007
Battery
Evil Pundit, I have a dear friend who recently retired from teaching in Western NSW. During her first year out, she was left to deal with the mothers of 5 kids, who’d been exemplarary students and had no need to be ‘rescued’, that during the day some police had pulled up at the school and carted their kids off.
The kids’ crime? They were “half castes”. Someone at the school had not wanted their white kids to attend the school with “half castes”. So they complained, and the law was that the kids could be excluded, but more than that was wanted, so they told the police that the kids were neglected, which they certainly were not.
One kid is still missing. The rest found their families again, after systemic abuse in ‘training institutions” and ‘reformatories”. The girl was impregnated by her employer, at the age of 12, on a property miles from town. She ended up an alcoholic, and a prostitute. The others knocked around for years, not wanting to approach their families, having been told that they’d been rejected by them.
I know this family well. Don’t bother telling me, or my teacher friend, who had this happen to her students many times in the 1940s and 1950s, that kids who were in competent, loving homes, were in need of rescue. It was purely based on disgusting ideas about “race”.
Dec 12th, 2007
Naomi Cartledge
Andrew (no 14) couldn’t agree with you more. When indigenous people have the same rights to non-indigenous, and that’s been a fact around the country for centuries, then perhaps, people like EP may be able to make his points. In the meantime, the reality is totally different as the facts show.
I recall about 20 years ago, at a International Womens’ Day lunch, the guests were women from LinkUp whose task it was to reunite indigenous people of various ages with their birth families. It was extremely sad, moving and at the same time uplifting to hear the stories of people who were stolen as children.(Incidentally, the truth about Lowitja O’Donaghue as I recall it, she was placed in a school or institution by her father as a temporary measure(he thought) but she was moved away and her family could not locate her – so initially it was voluntary, but she was stolen later -would not happen to white kids – it was the media that distorted her story).
When young women in the 60’s were forced/coerced/bribed/bullied etc and had their babies taken for adoption, the subsequent Senate inquiry a couple of years ago was heart rending. The Senators involved and the overwhelming feeling in the community had empathy with these women and their now adult children. Why do people have such a problem accepting the ’stories’ of indigenous people, accepting them as a truth, and having empathy and sorrow? I don’t understand the problem, except to think, that it’s basically motivated by racism! That’s it! I have no time for that sort of hatred and bigotry, a denial of natural justice and human compassion. I don’t have the time to waste on people like EP. As Mick Dodson said during his speech of May 26 2000, when he (it’s on the net)”…it’s not worth the bloody effort”. He also said, “denial is the enemy of reconciliation”. They can live with their denial, their racist bigotry and pathetic attempts to justify it. It’s rubbish and hurtful and horrific for those people who are hurting.
Dec 14th, 2007
GHOST*writer
some comments on “justice”
& the peace process below &
errors.
see “globaljusticemovement” & “victor kacala” for some ideas on HOW.
we, ALL people, good & evil,
have the tools & ideas.
i must admit, i do not think your advisors are much chop andrew?
i heard n.gruen the other day,
one of the lib-rat “advisors”.
pathetic nick,
i would do you cold sunny bun+PUN!
“By Design – Further comments
10/02/2007 12:48 PM dr victor kacala: social design & ethics & fair trade on the globeBR>
Listeners might be interested in this website – in relationship to design http://www.globaljusticemovement.net/pipermail/discussion_globaljusticemovement.net/2006-May/003363.html
Design impacts on all aspects of how we live – it is of great importance to know what resources we have [or could have] & what design we create as ‘our’ vision.
Education & health systems are good examples of social design – this includes the people, tools, buildings, equipment, info flows & HOW things could evolve over time.
Should we have central or de-central design laws or criteria & standards? This will depend on the design method u use & will depend on THE problem, of course, and a problem can only be solved if you or I can define the problem in the first place.
what is the KEY or core or origin of our social pain? Greed & arrogance & revenge = EVIL? We can see these three as a common constraint set on all social design.
Design laws must take into account the errors & the trilogy for all levels of design – it is of great import to cut external control, to the exclusion of others, of a set of FAIR laws. So, design a set of fair=just laws for your social trade systems? Where should we start?”
Feb 3rd, 2008
muzzmonster
If anyone on this forum can understand the last comment, could you please enlighten me?
Feb 3rd, 2008
GHOST*writer
hello muzz monSTIR.
i am noted for my lack of clarity & precision.
still, kids seem to know what i mean.
wrt nick the slick,
i spoke to him at length,
a few years ago,
about ir reform & labour markets.
nick sent me an essay,
i sent back comments on process.
Feb 4th, 2008
CORAL
Muzz:
I will try to tackle the second half in a nutshell version. The first half involves a physical attack on Nick Gruen, and a lack of respect for Andrew’s advisors.
Greed, arrogance and revenge (= evil) stand in the way of the development of good social structure, whether we’re talking about laws or infrastructure e.g. hospitals, education etc.
(I’d add selfishness to the “evil” myself.)
Ghostwriter would like to cut out external control (persons out for themselves, I suppose).
Where should we start to change these things?
ANSWER:
Put criminals behind bars. Discipline children firmly. Teach the society a decent set of values.
Will that do for a start?
Feb 4th, 2008
Andrew Bartlett
I think this thread can do with being closed now.
The Stolen Generations issue is still unfinished of course, although one aspect of it is likely to be addressed next week. I’ll probably do a new post on it soon. There are plenty of other posts around the web on the topic:
Here’s one people could sample.
Feb 5th, 2008