Running again
It’s nearly two years since the last election, when the Democrats lost all their seats, and over sixteen months since I finally left the Senate, as did the Democrats as a party. After a lot of thought, I’ve decided to get back into party politics and contest a seat at next year’s federal election.
It was formally announced today that I will be running in the seat of Brisbane, which is where I live. I’ve actually run in that seat once before, back in 1996. That was the election the Keating government got wiped out. Labor’s Arch Bevis, the incumbent in Brisbane at the time (as he still is), was 6.5% behind the Liberal candidate on primary votes, but at the end of the count he managed to get 559 votes in front, thanks to a very strong flow of preferences from Democrat and Green voters.
I had to weigh up a lot of things before deciding to dive back into party politics. There are aspects of politics that I could live without, and in the last year or so I’ve been enjoying engaging with a range of issues through a variety of different roles without having to worry about having a party label put on me.
But eventually I decided there are too many important and urgent issues that need to be addressed far more effectively than they currently are, and I felt I was in a position to help provide some of the extra political pressure to bring the necessary changes about.
Climate change is the most obvious and urgent matter. I can’t see any likelihood of either major party doing what is needed on climate change unless they feel it will cost them votes if they don’t.
There are plenty of other issues that need more attention between now and the next election. Housing affordability remains a big and growing problem despite the recent economic downturn and tax reform will be on the agenda again and will need to be done right.
It is also very important for Queensland to regain a voice in the federal Parliament from outside the major parties. This has been absent since the last election, when I lost my seat to Labor. With the Democrats basically out of the picture as a viable party, the Greens are the only real political option available to push these issues and provide a different perspective.
It is interesting being in a new environment and discovering what things work differently, although it feels a bit strange sometimes too, after having been in the Democrats for twenty years. However, I know plenty of the people – there are quite a few former Democrats in the Greens – and it will be interesting to have a go at campaigning focused at a more local level.
The first time I ever ran as a candidate was in the Brisbane City Council elections in 1991. I stood as a Democrat, but it was also as part of a wider team of candidates who ran under the overall banner of the Green Alliance, with Drew Hutton as the Lord Mayoral candidate. Around that time, talks were going on at a national level to explore the possibility of the Greens and the Democrats merging, rather than the Greens moving towards setting up their own national party.
I was in favour of a merger happening, rather than having the two parties competing for the same seats. However, for a whole bunch of reasons, it didn’t happen. All this time later, the Democrats have lost all their seats, but many of them didn’t go to the Greens, leaving Queensland without any minor party representation. I believe diversity of views and perspectives in highly desirable in politics. However, it is sadly lacking at the moment. So assisting the Greens to get a Senate seat is important.
Over the past couple of years, the Greens have been moving into the gap left by the Democrats in the Senate, and with Senate balance of power up for grabs at the next election, it is crucial than Queenslanders have a voice on balance of power issues. I think I can help make that happen, and provide an extra voice on some of the important issues, by running as a candidate.
The seat of Brisbane has changed a bit in the recent redistribution, losing some Labor areas and picking up some died in the wool Liberal suburbs. This has brought Labor’s margin down from 6.8% to 3.8%. This time around, the Liberal National Party candidate will be Teresa Gambaro, who was the Liberal member for the seat of Petrie from 1996 until the last election. There will be plenty of experience between the candidates for Labor, LNP and the Greens, which will hopefully make it a more interesting contest to follow.
102 Comments, Comment or Ping
Carmel Boyce
Hi Andrew,
Good choice, I joined the AD’s back in the 70’s when Don Chipp promised to keep the bastards honest and was sad when the AD’s lost their representation in parliament.
I’m glad to see that you’ve offered your services again and believe that the greens are/will be a force to be reckon with. There needs to be an alternative to the dumb/dumber – flip sides of the same coin type of politics.
I’m only sorry that I live in WA and can’t help you with a vote!!!
Nov 9th, 2009
Jason Grossman
Wow! Fantastic. Let me know what I can do to help.
Nov 9th, 2009
Ben Raue
Good luck Andrew. I hope you keep up the blogging during the campaign (I don’t know why you wouldn’t, but still wanted to emphasise it).
Nov 9th, 2009
Guido
So no more 4ZZZ broadcasts?
One thing that surprised me in hearing the news this morning is why the Greens haven’t opted for a Senate seat. I thought this was because:
– All the Green Senators have been allocated in Queensland
– You didn’t want to get back there
– The Greens really believe that a high profile candidate such as yourself will be able to win the seat.
I always thought that with the preferential system, winning a seat from the major parties is quite difficult in the House of Representatives.
But reading all your posts I know that your politics will fit really well with The Greens.
All the best.
Nov 9th, 2009
Tristan
Andrew, you have been my favourite politician… potenitally along with lindsay tanner. I must say I was rather hoping that a new politcal party would emerge post the democrats. A new ’social liberal’ party so to speak… maybe the greens can become that party, but think even the name has a hinderance to becoming a mainstream party.
In anycase, you probably already know this as looking at the numbers it seems you have about a snowballs chances of being elected in the lower house. You’d need to quadrupile the current green primary votes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Brisbane
Nov 9th, 2009
Tristan
Guido, why not the senate? Here is my take (andrew please comment)
Realistically, the greens are only going to get 1 QLD senator, at most at the next election. Larissa Waters isn’t moving from that spot.
To me it seems that you would be smart enough to see this.
Therefore what tou are tryinf to to is throw your weight behind the greens in the hope of helping them get the balance of power at the next election. Maybe gradually change the electorate of brisbane.
Nov 9th, 2009
Hamish Coffee
All the best Andrew.
Nov 9th, 2009
Renée
Awesome news. Hope it goes well for you!
Nov 9th, 2009
paul walter
Best of luck, Andrew. I fear you’ll be too far “ahead ” of any average aussie electorate, but I commend your trust in the voters- we can be a very myopic people.
I notice tax “reform” is mentioned in passing. Much has been recently mentioned concerning a new bout of this, but like many I flee from the notion of tax reform, as the term has been employed over the last generation as bearer of wealth (re) appropriation “upwards”, rather than to do with deployment of wealth efficiently.
I sincerely hope you might be able to give us a thumbnail on what is meant in the sense of reviews upcoming, what might be involved in this “tax reform”, since others seem so reluctant to explain what it might mean in practical terms.
Nov 9th, 2009
Andrew Bartlett
Thanks to all of you for the kind comments. It’ll be a mountain of work, but hopefully rewarding on a number of levels.
Guido – hopefully I’ll be able to keep doing stuff on ZZZ. I’ve done live interviews with a Liberal MP and 2 Labor MPs, and no one from smaller parties and I find blatantly partisan cheerleading tedious to listen to or read. Time may become a problem again as much as anything.
As for why not the Senate? Basically I felt I could be more use making a serious tilt at a House of Reps seat, which should also assist in Queensland regaining a voice in the Senate from outside the major parties. It’ll be very difficult to win, but if I can at least take the fight up to the two major parties and demonstrate to the community that I and the Greens present a credible choice, it will be very worthwhile.
Paul, I expect tax will be on the agenda again at the next election, after the Henry Review has been finalised and tabled. I think there are some changes needed to be amde to make our tax system fairer, more efficient and more productive – but it will also be important to try to get rational examination of whatever measures out of the Henry Review the ALP government decides to take to the election.
Nov 9th, 2009
David Murray
Welcome aboard! As an ex State Secretary of the Queensland Greens, I believe you will fit in very well. I would like to help you, but I live in Caboolture, even so, I wish you luck in this very difficult venture, and hope you win.
Nov 9th, 2009
Brenton
Congratulations on your candidacy. I think it is wonderful. It used to distress me when there were 4 Democrat Senators and 4 Greens Senators in the Parliament because Progressives need to be united and offer that choice to so many people who have no representation via the Laborials. Would love to see Brian Grieg join the Greens.
Nov 9th, 2009
malcolm
Don’t give up the fight—–from thw Australian Reform Movement to the Australia Party to The Democrats to The Greens —– welcome
Nov 9th, 2009
Megan
On 101.1 fm, they just announced that your opponent is somebody called Arch “Beavis”!
I hope you’re not giving your preferences to him (or Gambaro) – gah!
All the best!
PS If you get elected, can you bring back ‘Art2Lunch’ to 4ZzZ?
Nov 9th, 2009
Danny
Onya Andrew.
Will you try explaining to Ms Gambaro that she doesn’t have a chance of actually winning, especially with the much maligned and decisive ‘greens = labor preference machine’ ( regardless of official party HTV policy, the watermelon greens) factor in play?
Remind her of the 96 result, and any number of others that greens preferences have delivered seats to labor. If she still thinks she’s in with a chance, show her what happened in Mt Cootha, where the Lib was only 1.5% behind Fraser at the three party count, and then got trounced on Larissa’s voters prefs. That’s what will happen again, and neither of you will get in, and again labor will be given it on a plate.
Then walk her through the freemantle result, explain it is a far, far, better thing she does to throw in the towel and just not stand, rather enlist her to explain to her constituency that the ONLY way to get Labor out in Brisbane is to vote for you. It will probably be best for her to announce her withdrawal late in the piece so youse get maximum coverage, so the erstwhile tory voters understand the strategy and get onboard.
Maybe get someone from the West Australian Libs to explain it to her.
Make Brisbane is the new Fremantle.
Nov 9th, 2009
Jason Tysoe
Great to see you rejoin the Australian political arena Andrew (not that you ever really left). I think (hopefully) we are about to see significant social change brought about by enviromental need and a changed social mood. This change will certainly benefit from your efforts and involvement. Thanks for maintaining the rage.
No doubt some old Dems will come out to hand out for you.
Cheers Jason
Nov 9th, 2009
Maaz Syed
Congratulations on your candidacy. It is wonderful news. Australian politics need people like you. You have my full support Andrew. All the best.
Cheers,
Maaz
Nov 9th, 2009
philip travers
Finally I can retire from posting here.May comeback,if Andrew is disillusioned by matters out of his hands and the Electorate.For we live in unusual times,and who knows,if minor facts of Climate Change like Solar Flare activity require a very large number of all hands on deck,because of communication technology failure and electrical matters interfered with by matters Solar[the sun].I will be crying,rather than a told you so approach.
Nov 9th, 2009
Lefki
That’s great news! Congratulations. We need you in the political scene, where you will make a difference. Thank you.
Nov 9th, 2009
Kirk
@DANNY nice idea but I don’t think it’s Gambaro’s choice to run a Liberal candidate – sure, she is running but if she doesn’t then someone else will.
Further, I would expect that Gambaro and most of the LNP would prefer old Arch to get in than any Greens candidate. That’s life!
Best of luck, Andrew. I’ll be volunteering for you.
Nov 9th, 2009
CJ Morgan
Hi Andrew. I don’t think I’ve posted on your blog before, but I’m delighted to do so now on such a positive note.
I’m a ‘grassroots’ member of the Qld Greens, and I think it’s great that you’ve finally joined us. It was only the other day that I was ruminating elsewhere that it’s a damned shame you’re no longer in the Senate…
Let’s see if we can’t get you into the House of Reps – if not in 2010 then maybe next time. Again, welcome. It’s really good not to have to campaign against you ;)
Nov 9th, 2009
Diaz Couper
After going OMG!, I quickly came to conclusion that ‘yes’, you can make a difference in getting a extra green in the senate by upping the media interest. And with the Dems spent in the media’s eyes, Greens are the next best option. So good luck and well wishes!
Nov 9th, 2009
Jared
Good luck, mate, I’ll be voting for you!
Nov 10th, 2009
ken
Well at least that one seat kevvy no longer has to worry aobut, guarantees Arch Beavis’s reelection
Nov 10th, 2009
Jeffrey G
From the frying pan to the fire. All the best Andrew! The political debate is better for your presence.
Nov 10th, 2009
red crab
good luck andrew i hope you do well
Nov 10th, 2009
Maree Robertson
Good on you! I imagine it’s a hard call, putting yourself back in that frying pan, but I’m glad you made it. & I feel very appreciative that you chose to mention the 1991 campaign, which was in fact the first & last time I threw my full energy into a poltical campaign…so disillusioned was I with the missed opportunities re mergers/alliances…(as I recall, we got up to 14% of the primary vote in some seats, not sure if that’s been equalled since).
& so now, I feel able to offer my services, for whatever they are useful, in your campaign. I’m not a member of the Greens, or any other party, as I haven’t found it possible to subscribe to the totality of either of my most favourite parties’ platforms ( ie Greens & Socialist Alliance)…but I don’t think that would prevent me from doing letterboxing etc, non?
Let me know where you need me to sign up, & what for….
I’ve no doubt you have many bods more cluey than me, but I’ll enjoy being able to do how-to-votes for someone I really know I can trust…..
Cheers :-) Maree
Nov 10th, 2009
Alpha Brain
Splendid news Andrew and perhaps the first representative of a new “Age of Enlightenment” – the spiritual evolution from homo sapien to homo noeticus (minus the religious crap of course!)
The inhumane and morally bankrupt empire builders have had their day in the sun – move over lemmings!
Good luck Andrew and greetings from the West!
Nov 10th, 2009
Tammy
Fantastic news!
Nov 10th, 2009
Ginny V
Good on you! That’s great news! Can’t help as located down south unfortunately! Please post if southerners can help!
Nov 10th, 2009
John Tracey
Hello Andrew,
The Qld. Greens have supported the Wilderness Society in its Cape York Wild Rivers campaign. Noel Pearson and other Cape traditional owners are waging a legal and political campaign against the Wild Rivers law. Tanya Major and others has picketed Wilderness Society functions and the Wilderness Society has picketed against Noel Pearson, and waged an internet campaign to demonise him.
There was a time when Aboriginal people and environmentalists considered themselves allies, especially on the Cape with the Cape York Heads of Agreement in the 1990s.
But now a bitter clash between environmentalists and traditional owners is unfolding.
In the federal sphere, Rob Mclelland and Tom Calma have both publically called for negotiation on Cape York land matters.
In the recent 2009 Mabo oration, Tom Calma said……….
“Here in Queensland, for example, we have seen the declaration of Wild Rivers in the Cape York region without sufficient consultation with the affected Indigenous communities and traditional owners. The same goes for proposals to declare sections of Cape York on the World Heritage list. Gone should be the days when Indigenous or non Indigenous politically or ideologically driven pressure groups, governments or individuals can dictate what is best for Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander peoples.”
This green/black conflict is disasterous.
There needs to be an intervention by the federal Greens to mediate between the party and Cape York Aboriginal people and to ammend the Wild Rivers policy so that it conforms to the Greens indigenous policy and the International Covenant on indigenous rights, both of which are contravened by Greens Wild Rivers policy and the legislation itself.
Nov 10th, 2009
Lorikeet
John Tracey:
Yes, I heard Noel Pearson complaining about the clash with The Greens on Cape York.
From what I’ve heard, the only people who have access to a small part of that area are Chinese mining our mineral resources and taking them back to their place.
I went to school with Arch Bevis. I think he holds the seat of Brisbane quite strongly, but I would like to see the seat won by a non-Green smaller party or independent candidate.
I don’t like The Greens very much at all. Although they appear to support a few good social policies, I think they are a dangerous, recidivist, communist party.
Nov 10th, 2009
RT
Great news Andrew.
The Australian body politic needs you more than ever.
Nov 10th, 2009
Tristan
Andrew and others wonder what this means
I did some numbers using pollytics, wikipedia and anthoy greens election blog. There is no way you’re going to get quadrupling of votes needed to win the seat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Brisbane
But my guess is you know that inner city Brisbane is your target market – where you will/can change the most number of votes. Additionally, votes in the lower house seem to translate well for the greens. The below says that the greens get, on average, an extra 1.25 senate votes for every house of Reps vote and labor gets less than one.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2009/09/14/predicting-the-senate/
If you take a look at the polls (on pollytracker) the greens are up 1.3% on the primary vote in QLD. If you assume this has the extra predicted 25% then your talking an extra 40 000 votes. labor up in queensland marginally (0.6, with less than that likely in the senate.)
In the last election the green fell short to labor by 50 000 votes in the last election. Taking into account the change since the last election the greens are probably about 10 000 – 20 000 votes short of a QLD senate seat at the minute (admittedly with a fair bit of error possible)
The Seat of Brisbane will have about 85 000 people turn up. I doubt you could convince enough of the to change their preferences individually to get larissa over the line. However, you might come close to getting half.
Nov 10th, 2009
Tristan
Also, what will it mean to have a QLD labor senator for the balance of power? Nothing if no other sentate seats change.
However, if labor (or the greens) pinch another couple of seats from the libs in other states then this would help the greens hold the balance of power.
Strange really…
Nov 10th, 2009
James Bennett
Congratulations Andrew,
As a former Democrat myself who is now with the Greens I wish you all the best. Your optimism and desire to make a difference in this world is an inspiration. Good on you for being able to put to one side any differences you have with the Greens for the sake of advocating for the issues that you care about. Rightly or wrongly there are plenty of people who can’t do that. Best wishes. Sorry I can’t vote for you but as I live in Higgins I will be voting for Clive.
Nov 10th, 2009
TerjeP (say tay-a)
Congratulations. However I think you are joining a deeply flawed party. I’m a Liberal Democrat so I admint I am biased, however the reality is that the Greens are simply too wedded to a high tax philosophy.
Given their progressive instincts the Greens should focus on seeking tax cuts for low income earners instead of always calling for higher taxes on middle and high income earners. Of course they won’t do that because they are wedded to the centralisation of power. They like big strong controlling government. It cuts against their ethos of think global act local but they are not going to change.
Nov 10th, 2009
Lorikeet
Terjep:
If the ethos of The Greens is “think global, act local”, I think it is in keeping with the agenda of Global Greens. They’re working on their own little patch.
Yes, they like big strong controlling government. We should all think about what that could mean.
Tristan:
I don’t think Labor has a hope in Hades of going anywhere but down in the polls.
In other countries, including the USA and Japan, the vote has moved further to the left because of rampant capitalism on the part of a few huge corporations.
People are sick of banks, and many here in Australia have now come to grips with the effects Green ideology is having on the major parties, and the way in which they intend to use it to rob the people.
Nov 11th, 2009
Tony
Hard to imagine anyone wanting to join greens.
The Democrats certainly seem to found a home in the greens.
Two party’s of identical ideals and ideology
The argument of who goes last on the ballot paper has finally be solved.
Keep Australia strong and independent, Dont carbon tax us out of our existence. Save what traditions are left of this once great nation
Place the Greens last on every Ballot Paper
Save Australia before the greens sign it away
Sounds good
Or tax us out of work
Tony
Nov 11th, 2009
Thomas Castiglione
Good luck. I’m a Green from WA, but I always used to like the Democrats as well – always thought you were in denial a bit about which side of politics the support came from. I’m sure the party believed in the mantra of being sane and responsible, but the fact is that alone puts you to the left of the major parties!
Anyway, whatever banner you’re running under, best wishes in Brisbane – if you manage to win it or come close, I think it will go some way toward that restoration of third party politics in QLD.
Nov 11th, 2009
Alpha Brain
If constituents in the seat of Brisbane have a handle on the state of Australia’s environment, they will most certainly elect Andrew Bartlett.
Despite the ramifications of climate change, both state and federal governments continue to hand out licences to pollute like paddle pops and disappointingly, Peter Garrett is giving the nod to so many polluters he must have a headache.
The recent oil spill off the coast of WA presents grave consequences for marine life and the rig’s fire would have released a massive amount of carbon into the atmosphere. One must ask why gas and oil companies are given a permit to pollute without a Plan B in the event of an environmental catastrophe.
Here in the West we have Premier Colin Barnett on the loose, overriding EPA environmental impact assessments. Barnett, after pledging during the election campaign last year that there would be no lead shipments through Fremantle, has given the nod to Magellan Mining to ship lead through the port of Fremantle, after poisoning the town of Esperance with lead and slaying 9,000 native birds.
The Parliamentary Enquiry into the poisoning of Esperance was scathing in its attack on the Department of Environment, Magellan Mining and the Esperance Port – same players – different year!
New State member for Fremantle, Greens MP, Adele Carles, is on her toes, holding the state government to account in the West, however, if these arid lands are to have an environmentally sustainable future, we need many more Greens in all our halls of parliament. Both major parties have been an abysmal failure and are held captive by influential polluting corporations who continue to pollute with impunity.
Nov 11th, 2009
Lorikeet
I decided to have a look at the seat of Brisbane. It seems that Arch Bevis is only holding it by a fairly narrow margin now, despite the backlash against Howard (Liberals).
I think Gambaro is likely to win the seat for the Liberals.
I grew up in that electorate in the days when it housed ordinary working people with fairly large families, but now the inner city suburbs have very expensive housing which only the reasonably well-to-do can afford to buy.
Nov 12th, 2009
Syed Junaid
All the best Andrew, its good you have chosen to come back into public life. With the recent events on the dam and refugees we desparetly need some one who can speak from his heart, some one who does not take decisions based on political benefit. You have our support i will be very honoured to be able to help you. GOOD LUCK
Nov 12th, 2009
ltep
Mr Bartlett, best of luck in your campaign although I think it might be a bridge too far. Fingers crossed this is a first step towards your future return to the Senate.
I’m surprised you haven’t blogged about Mr Garrett’s decision relating to the Traveston Dam.
Nov 12th, 2009
Tony
Wow
All these greens and Ex Democrats back slapping and congratulating each other.
Must be wonderfull to have political opponents so close as these two.
Tony
Nov 12th, 2009
Daniel
Andrew I always knew that you would end up joining us Greens. It was only a matter of time. Where else would you have gone to?
Nov 12th, 2009
Andrew Bartlett
It would have been a lot quicker if the Greens had joined with the Democrats in the first place, Daniel. :-)
It’s true that there weren’t many other feasible parties to choose from once the Democrats were gone (maybe the LDP if they were less purist) (or the Liberals if they were actually liberals), but I didn’t have to join another political party. Being completely non-aligned has its benefits, but I figured engaging in electoral politics still had merit too (and I’m not overly keen on running as an independent, even though I’m independently minded).
Nov 13th, 2009
ken
Your kidding Lorkeet – Bartleett will pick up at least 15% of primaries, of which 70-80% preferences will flow straight to beavis. So he’s a shoe in
Nov 13th, 2009
Guido
Regarding a possible Green-Democrat merger. I thought that while on environmental grounds they were similar, the Democrats were more economic libertarian than the Greens. That is due to its tradition of being created by Don Chipp (who was a Liberal) and continued with John Siddons (who was a businessman, with Siddons and Sidchrome tools).
I always wondered that from the mid 70’s the AD moved to the left as people disillusioned with the ALP (especially during the Hawke – Keating years) drifted to the Democrats as an alternative.
Nov 13th, 2009
R D
Hi Andrew
I congratulate you on your decision and the best of luck.
In relation to the PMs visit to India and the refusal to sell India Uranium because NPT etc, I was surprised that there is no media or comment on the attached article from the Washington Post. As clear a case of the flouting of the NPT as you would ever see and yet no mention of it anywhere. Would you be able to look into this please?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/12/AR2009111211060.html?hpid=topnews
Nov 13th, 2009
Lorikeet
Ken:
It’s hard to know what the voters will do in any election. At the last Queensland state election, I thought Anna Bligh would be out on her ear.
After the election, at the union demonstration outside the State Labor Conference, I asked angry young men from the Rail Union why they voted for Anna if they disliked her so much. They said: “She lied to us.”
But I think quite a lot of voters had taken exception to the fact that LNP had a mining magnate backing them.
A lot of people voted Labor, because the only alternatives to LNP were DS4seq and The Greens. I had a FF candidate in my electorate, so I voted for him.
I think most people are fairly angry with Rudd for selling us out in various ways, on top of fiscal irresponsibility. Labor could lose quite a few seats. I think far more people will be looking for smaller parties and individuals to vote for. Very staunch Labor voters probably won’t move to the extreme right.
If people look at the parliamentary records on foreign debt, they will find that both Liberals and Labor have racked up in excess of $1.2 trillion in the last 20 years. Liberals like to blame Labor for everything, but their track record is also very bad.
Our country isn’t too different from the USA, where both Republicans and Democrats support control by corporatists in various ways.
I don’t think there are many people left in our parliaments who don’t support policies which will lead to communism. I think The Greens are the worst.
Nov 13th, 2009
Deep Green Heart
Give ‘em heaps Andrew. Good luck. And a reps. seat too; hopefully local Brisbane (transport) issues can get some of your attention too.
Nov 13th, 2009
jLo
AB, this is the best news ever. Hooray! Parliament needs you. Am off to check my voter registration now….
Nov 14th, 2009
Tony
Andrew Says: (maybe the LDP if they were less purist) (or the Liberals if they were actually liberals)
LDP or Liberals. Come on Andrew the Greens or maybe the SA were clearly in your sights
Tony
Nov 14th, 2009
Greg H.
Quite a set of balls on you Andrew, to run for the Greens after the preference deals you did with Family First in 2004 screwed them out of AT LEAST two senate seats and put that waste of space Steve Fielding into parliament (with a reasonable chance of being re-elected ahead of the greens again next year too).
I hope you’re not going to claim the deal was stitched up by head office and had nothing to do with you. As if they’d do something like that without consulting the parliamentary leader of the party!
Nov 14th, 2009
Andrew Bartlett
Gee Tony, how about I just let you write this blog and do all my comments, seeing you think you know more about what I think than I do myself? Or better still, if you insist on being a moron, go set up your own blog. Your mob have more in common with Socialist Alliance esp on economic issues than I do
Greg H, I’ve been quite open in my role in that, including on this blog. Why would I suddenly pretend otherwise now? Don’t assume that everyone else possesses your shortcomings.
The less than desirable preference decisions made by virtually every party you could name would make a very long list. Some folks seem to feel it’s the height of evil if any other party does it, but justifiable pragmatism if their own mob does it.
It was Labor’s preferences which made the crucial difference with Steve Fielding in 2004, although contrary to most I still feel that was a reasonable risk by Labor at the time which looks very stupid in hindsight. No one had ever got elected on such a low primary vote before, so it was a reasonable gamble by Labor in an effort to get a third Senate seat (which they were well on track to get until Latham’s final week implosion). However, the rogue result was one that all parties took a lesson from and most are now more careful about what they do with their preferences to seemingly irrelevant micro parties. Unfortunately, such things also make it harder for the Greens now, as far fewer micro and minor parties preference across the ideological divide compared to years gone by, which benefits the majors. It’s also another downside from the decline of the Democrats, as there’s now very little vote for the Greens to gain through preferences.
That 2004 preference decision cost the Greens an SA seat, but that went to Labor, not Family First, even though the Greens were preferenced higher than Labor.The vagaries of preferences can work that way – it benefitted the Greens in SA in 2007, when Nick Xenophon’s Senate run served to help the Greens win a seat.
Nov 15th, 2009
paul walter
Andrew to Tony: “your mob has more in common with socialist alliance, esp economic issues than I do”.
Well, perish the thought that wealth and finite resources should be used for the benefit of society; most of all those who actually need help, rather than exclusively for a few pathological developer grubs and their accomplices.
Nov 15th, 2009
Andrew Bartlett
There’s not much use having the value of using wealth for the benefit of society if you adopt mechanisms that develop very little wealth, Paul. Perish the thought there might actually be some middle ground.
Although I was more interested in pointing out the inanity of Tony’s insistence of narrow characterisations than I was in having a go at the SA per se. Most of us have a lot more in common on a variety issues than we tend to portray, because we’re more interested in highlighting and exagerrating differences than in identifying common ground or shared values – especially when it comes to political debate.
The last thing we want is to end up in the dead end alley that much political ‘debate’ in the USA seems to marooned itself. Their current ‘debate’ over their hugely dusfunctional health system being a case in point – see this piece by a US Congressman on the ridiculous and disgracefully dishonest ‘death panel’ meme that not only occupied the minds of far right lunar dwellers, but qucikly dominated mainstream media coverage – http://bit.ly/1AQsBD
Nov 15th, 2009
paul walter
Well, what bothers me the upkeep for all those “hidden” divisons hidden up in the mountains
Nov 16th, 2009
Lorikeet
Andrew:
Then am I wrong in assuming that you helped organise candidates for The Greens at the March State election here in Queensland?
The Greens are clearly recidivist communists, as are the Socialist Alliance.
You think Tony and the DLP have more in common with communists than you do? How could that be?
A few months ago, you said the DLP was the most anti-communist of all of the parties.
The DLP does not like free trade agreements which sell out our own business people and farmers. If anything, the DLP are patriots.
To my knowledge, The Greens support euthanasia, abortion and homosexual marriage & adoption. All of these are methods of Population Control. They have many other extreme ideas and beliefs which I would expect to find in a doomsday cult.
I think The Greens have been more than “in your sights” for a very long time.
Nov 16th, 2009
ken
hopefully that first paragrpah draws a new line in the sand for the Greens..a good start for you. (can you also start to think aobut broadening the appeal of that awful name).
I think that is the first time ever I’ve heard a green polly or supporter recognise that wealth doesnt grow on trees, or from a government printing press.
Nov 17th, 2009
paul walter
If you comment refers to what I think it does, all I can say Ken, is you must be some sort of fool.
The notion of sustainable development is intended to create value by maintaining the resource providing the wealth and avoiding massive “down stream” costs that inevitably follow when developers and argy bargies get their brainless way way in front of the science and economics.
With Green economics you not only satisfy the fast buck cravings of those who would kill the goose laying the golden eggs, in their rude impatience, but add value to resources in an environment that sustains them.
You not only limit the James Hardy types, but keep the bird laying the gold, that would have gutted by the greed at any cost merchants.
Nov 17th, 2009
ken
Tony and you both think I am a fool Paul – so i’m travelling well.
Nov 18th, 2009
paul walter
Ken, an old mate of mine reckons, if you are getting kicked up the butt, you must be in front.
Nov 18th, 2009
TerjeP (say tay-a)
Andrew,
I’m not sure which LDP policy is too pure for your liking or if it is merely the rhetoric of the members that put you off. However please feel free to steal any and every LDP policy that you want. I know you have previously expressed sympathy for components of the LDP immigration policy and you seem to agree on many of the direct democracy initiatives. Of course I’d also expect you to share the LDPs position on euthenasia, abortion, gay marriage and drug reform (we’re more liberal than the Greens).
In terms of senate preferences I agree that it is a system that damns you whatever you do. My prefered solution is to stop electing senators and instead appoint them using sortition. It would be far more representative than either house is today and it would really keep the bastards honest. Of course self interest would ensure that the Greens would hate it.
Nov 18th, 2009
Colin McDermott
Hi Andrew
I think that I am one of many fans that have followed your career in politics. You were one of two people who inspired me greatly within the Democrats (the other being Arthur Chesterfield Evans).
Good on you for running and thank you for everything that you have done for our country!
Nov 18th, 2009
Andrew Bartlett
Thanks Colin – very kind of you.
Terje P – I understand what you mean when you say appointing Senators by sortition would be more “representative” in a literal sense of the word. But it is not democratic. And given that it makes elections (and being elected) superfluous, I imagine it would be against the self-interest of all political parties (although they could still advocate it of course, should they choose to)
Lorikeet – The fact that you have repeated your absurd nonsense about Labor-Liberal-Green recidivist global capitalist corporate communism’ about 100 times on this site doesn’t mean I’m obliged to take it any more seriously the 100th time you said than I did the first time. I expect the DLP are against free trade agreements – so are the Socialist Alliance, which is precisely the point I was making. But I was simply making a point about Tony’s silly and sweeping overgeneralisation. I’m not really interested in debating the DLP’s policies any more than I am in engaging with your ridiculous misrepresentation of the Greens – you will repeat the same nonsense 100 more times, not matter what I say.
Nov 18th, 2009
paul walter
Andrew, am sure most FTA sceptics would happily go along with” Free Trade”, if the reality was remotely commensurate with the spin.
The public certainly didn’t have the AUSFTA explained properly, and much of that relates to lobbying from vested interests here and in America, that make a mockery of the aims and intentions of cost efficient, competetive-advantage economics.
I retain sympathy with communities, urban suburban or rural that want to retain a little self determination in their lives, so refer you and others to my previous post dealing with “killing the goose that lays the golden egg”.
The people are not against reform in the meaningful sense- they just want the hucksters who seem to have mysteriously garnered so much influenc over politicians removed from the equation, for the sake of efficiency.
Nov 18th, 2009
Lorikeet
Paul Walters:
Yes, that’s right. We want the hucksters removed from the equation – some of the very people who are pushing a Green agenda for their own gain.
I agree with your friend that if you’re ahead in any way, plenty of people are looking to kick you. It’s happened to people throughout history.
If my 12-year-old son could see through the Climate Change agenda, a Bill of Rights, and Free Trade Agreements when the primary school kept trying to indoctrinate him, what’s the matter with the rest of you?
The only relative I have who would vote for The Greens is a very co-dependent schizophrenic, and before anyone starts casting aspersions, the problem is hereditary in my mother-in-law’s family.
Irene Khan, Secretary General of Amnesty International, did yesterday’s National Press Club address. She said 70% of the poor in any country (including ours) are women. According to her, aboriginal women are 35 times more likely to get beaten up than white women.
Irene Khan is from Bangladesh. She seemed to be fairly eager for a redistribution of wealth from developed nations to the third world, and supported the signing of the Copenhagen Treaty.
She said our draft Bill of Human Rights had the same things lacking as other countries – social and economic considerations, such as the right to education, medical services and housing. All of these things are certainly going backwards in Australia, especially for the poor.
We are seeing a growing trend to give out welfare funds to the Middle Class, while kicking the poor into the gutter. Both Labor and Coalition seem to support this.
Who in their right mind would give the wives of wealthy men the equivalent of a pension to go out to work while we have 100,000 homeless people living on the street? That’s what’s happening with the Child Care Rebate if a couple has 2 children ($15,556 p.a. – no means test).
Now Ron Boswell wants rich women to be paid the same for staying at home with their kids! A pipe dream????????
Nov 19th, 2009
Greg H.
I notice Andrew that in your reply to me you only mentioned the preference deal in SA which cost the greens a senate seat at the 2004 election – you conveniently ignored the even worse one in NSW where you preferenced not only Family First but also Fred Nile (not just the party, but the man himself !) ahead of the Greens and kept John Kaye out of the senate as a result.
Some of us aren’t so ready to exclude the moral dimension from preference decisions. But in the interests of fairness, it is worth noting that the Greens preference policy specifically states that their aim is to get greens elected to parliament, seemingly an admission that they reserve the right to engage in 2004-style dodgy dealings themselves if in the future they choose to. Not that anyone would be too interested – The Greens are so far ahead of the micro parties now that the odds of anyone getting their preferences, rather than it being the other way around, are pretty slim.
I don’t fancy your chances of winning Brisbane next year (I predict you’ll only lift the Greens vote to around sixteen or seventeen percent) but I think we all know that what you’re really after is getting “your” senate seat back at the 2013 election. Not that I expect you to admit that of course. The game must be played.
I apologise for my strong language in my earlier comment – the truth is I actually quite like you. I just want all the facts on the table and don’t think the greens should be so eager to absorb ex-democrats into the party. Here in SA one of them (Tammy Jennings) is our (yes I’m a green) lead legislative council candidate for next year’s state election. You can’t help but feel a litle bit miffed, though evidently the greens members didn’t mind. But how many of the members now are also ex-democrats?
You guys wrecked your party with almost unbelievably petty and stupid in-fighting and personality clashes and have now seemingly folded yourselves into ours. I can’t pretend I’m not a little worried
Nov 19th, 2009
Tony
Greg H. Says: The Greens are so far ahead of the micro parties now that the odds of anyone getting their preferences, rather than it being the other way around, are pretty slim.
With the massive public funding the greens now enjoy your probably right.
But 3 years is a long time in politics. Minor parties can fall as quickly as they rise. The growing antagonism towards the greens may also continue and a swing back to micro level may only be an election away.
On the other hand a swing towards any one of the other micro parties(which is rarely detected in opinion polls) could see another micro rise rapidly as did One nation when it’s rise wasnt picked up by any of the media or opinion polls.
Tony
Nov 19th, 2009
Lorikeet
Greg H:
If anyone wants to get elected, they have to try to have some kind of preference deal in place which will be advantageous. I’m sure you know that you need to put the people most likely to win at the bottom of the voting order. Otherwise, you might as well stay home and not bother.
The Greens and Labor generally seem to preference one another though.
Last Sunday, a TV commentator seemed to think that Labor would pick up at least 4 more seats here in Queensland. Although my eyebrows shot up to my hairline and stayed there, all I can say is there is no accounting for some people’s voting preferences.
So maybe Ken is right this time, and Arch Bevis will hold the seat for Labor.
I’m wondering how much this has to do with our kids being continually indoctrinated with Climate Change in our schools. This week I was speaking with 2 x Year 10 girls. While one was busily rolling about on the floor laughing (not listening much) at first, her friend agreed to go home and do her own research. She said the other girl was smarter than she was, but I think not!
Then the following day, a woman was complaining to me about government propaganda being instilled in our kids at school.
This reminded me of the guy who said that education was made compulsory “to subjugate the masses” and the school uniform “for cloning”.
Nov 19th, 2009
Naomi Cartledge
Good on you Andrew! Great news. I wish you all the very best. I’ve always admired you, and you would be a great asset in the Parliament.
I’m in NSW, so I’ll be watching on election night with great interest, and fingers crossed!
I just finished watching last night’s prgram(I taped it) on SBS about ‘Whistlblowers’ in Australia. Andrew Wilke was the focus tonight. Another man of integrity in my view. It’s a very interesting documentary. I met him a few of years ago – I was very impressed, he’s a lovely bloke! He’s looking at running as an Independent in Tasmania – I hope he’s successful too!
All the best to you and your family!
Nov 19th, 2009
Andrew Bartlett
Greg H
It’s nice to hear that “the truth is (you) actually quite like (me).” I can’t see it comes through very clearly in your comments, but that’s OK.
It’s a common and understandable goal of almost all political parties to want to get people from their party elected to Parliament. It would be strange world if it wasn’t. The risk can be the other things that can get cast aside in pursuing that goal. I could point to dubious preference decisions made over the years by most other minor or major political parties at one time or another at both state and federal level. That includes the Greens. But I’m not interested in highlighting them – it tends to quickly degenerate into tit for tat accusations. As you noted, it’s a core goal of political parties to win seats at elections, so I usually don’t judge other parties harshly for preference deals, unless its with destructive elements like One Nation.
As the Fielding incident showed, it can be very dangerous to assume that other parties will not be in a position to receive the preferences of your party. You can’t tell what other people are going to do, or be certain something won’t happen to drag your party’s vote down substantially, so Fielding taught us it’s better not to take the risk.
I didn’t mention anything about that NSW incident because (a) it didn’t cause the Greens to lose a Senate seat – Labor would have won on Nile’s preferences, instead of winning on the Greens’; (b) you only mentioned Family First in your allegation; and (c) in any case, there was no preference deal done with the Christian Democrats, as can be seen if you look at where that party’s preferences went. The aspect of the Aust Dem’s group voting ticket which you are referring to was a stuff up on the part of the person who filled out the papers. It had not been agreed on or authorised. I take responsibility for the decisions I’m part of, but that wasn’t one of them
Nov 19th, 2009
Andrew Bartlett
Greg H (again)
As noted in the original post, I ran as a candidate under a Green Alliance banner back in 1991, before the Green Party had really formed in Queensland, so I can say I was there first!
Over the years there have been plenty of ex-Greens join the Democrats and vice versa. They are all individual people – thinking of them as some grouping that is being “absorbed” or “folded into” the Greens is giving them a far greater collective significance than they have.
As for the public infighting that helped wreck the Democrats, that was the fault of the Senate team of the time (of which I was a part of course) not the fault of the general membership. Implying that former Democrat members were somehow involved in or acquiescent to the parliamentarians’ behaviour of that period isn’t fair on them, and can do the Greens a disservice by making them suspicious of new members when there is no need to be. You should be happy the party is broadening its base and sometimes adding very useful experience. Look to whether each individual is any good or not, rather than assume they all share a common trait or view.
Seeing the rank and file members of the SA Greens voted to endorse Tammy Jennings over other candidates, it shows the majority of them are comfortable with her. She has also been heavily involved internally within the party for the last few years, sufficient for the members to support electing her as state Convenor. It may only be a few years, but she’s proved her worth in the par
And don’t tell me what I’m “really after” by running as a candidate this time. If “we all know” it’s about a future Senate run, then what you (and any others) ‘know’ is wrong. I have a mountain of work in front of me over the next year trying to put in a very strong effort and showing in Brisbane. I have little idea what I’d do after the election, as life has way too many unpredictable factors involved, and I have no idea how I’ll feel about things until after the election
Nov 19th, 2009
Greg H.
Andrew says:It’s nice to hear that “the truth is (you) actually quite like (me).” I can’t see it comes through very clearly in your comments, but that’s OK.
Once again I apologise. I didn’t mean to be so rude. I do actually like you and wish you all the best. I shouldn’t be stirring up so much trouble re the ex-democrats joining the greens. I’m just really bitter about that 2004 election! It was a real disaster for all of us re the senate – with the ALP primary vote so low we should have won seats just about everywhere, but only got the 2 – and Christine Milne had to get hers on below the line votes. The whole thing was a nightmare.
And the worst thing is that we might not do any better next year, what with the ALP vote being so close to three outright quotas (and maybe a little over). And all those stupid right-wing micro parties topping up the weak coalition vote.
I think we might only win seats in Tasmania and WA – and that’s if Labor stays weak in the west, which it might not. Victoria’s a chance if we increase our vote by a few percent, but oh, I’m almost certain that Steve Fielding is going to get himself re-elected! He’ll find a way.
Oh, for those glorious Howard years when the left could pick up senate seats in every state on Labor preferences with only a tad over half a quota!
I never thought I’d call the Howard years glorious, but there you go.
Nov 20th, 2009
Andrew Bartlett
As I said Greg, it’s OK. I’ve had plenty worse in the past, including on this blog and worse again from some in the mainstream media and from colleagues within the Democrats, let alone other parties. I’m just trying to address the specific issues you raised.
I can understand feeling bitter about aspects of the 2004 election. It’s human nature, and I’d certainly make some different decisions myself in hindsight (and so would the ALP in regards to the Victorian Senate I’m sure).
But without trying to sound like a patronising old fart (not least because I’m trying not to realise how old I’m getting), it’s best not to let that stuff get to you to much – not least because ongoing bitterness can lead to bad judgments down the track (ref above mentioned public infighting within the Democrats).
Democrats have good reason to bitter about the massive last minute smear campaign that cost Janine Haines the chance to break through into the House of Reps in 1990.
Not surprisingly, after many years competing for the same seats, a litany of perceived slights developed between people within the Democrats and the Greens. Trying to think about how people on the other side would be viewing things is not always as easy as it sounds.
I can still recite from memory some of the particularly critical things that were said about me in the Senate by some in the Greens regarding a couple of particular issues (including the passage of the EPBC Act, which turned out to be an essential component in enabling the disastrous Traveston dam to be stopped). Maybe it’s just because I particularly appreciate irony, but being able to work with people despite some past sometimes fiery disputes can be quite empowering. Which isn’t to say people should get all starry-eyed about being able to work together with everybody all the time on every issue – just that it is worthwhile looking for the commonalities rather than the differences.
Nov 20th, 2009
Andrew Bartlett
As for the Greens and Senate seats, (I think) it is always dangerous to publicly predict, but retaining the Senate seat in Tasmania seems very likely. And one up side of only winning 2 seats in 2004 is that you have less to defend, and more chances of making gains. (And while I know it’s also human nature to bemoan the ones that got away rather than the times you get the rub of the green, you could also note that Xenophon’s decision to run in 2007 – which obviously no other party had control over – had a big impact on the Greens’ ability to pick up an SA Senate seat for the first).
Unfortunately, smaller parties will always be subject to the vagaries of preferences until they can build up their base vote to the level of a full Senate quota. The higher your primary vote, the better your chances, but until you get a quota in your own right, your fate is still at least partly in other peoples’ hands and in the dice roll involved with how close to quotas the two major parties poll.
I could roll out a heap of near misses and unlucky breaks the Democrats got over the years. As I wrote recently when noting the death of former Democrat Senator and co-founder Jack Evans, his vote of 12.6% in the very first election the Democrats contested in 1977 remains the highest the party ever achieved in WA, but he wasn’t elected. Meanwhile, another Democrat in NSW did get in on 8.3%. Jack failed again at the next election, by literally a few thousands votes after preferences, and lost a High Court challenge relating to blatantly false advertising put out against the Democrats by the Liberal’s Noel Crichton-Browne.
Jack finally got elected on his third attempt with just 6.8%, but lost his seat next time when the new Nuclear Disarmament Party split the Democrats’ vote badly, even though one of the first and strongest policies of the Democrats had always been nuclear disarmament. Jo Vallantine, the WA Senator elected for the NDP at that time, later went on to play a pivotal role in the formation of the WA Greens.
A few people managed to hold grudges for quite a few years about the NDP and the harm it did to the Democrats’ votes and seats in 1984. Some of that carried through to when the Greens formed in WA, and it doesn’t take much for such attitudes to be mirrored by people on both sides, which I don’t think helped anybody very much. (I should also note that Jo Vallentine attended Jack Evans’ funeral service in Perth recently and I’m not referring to her.)
Nov 20th, 2009
Tony
Greg H
And the worst thing is that we might not do any better next year, what with the ALP vote being so close to three outright quotas (and maybe a little over). And all those stupid right-wing micro parties topping up the weak coalition vote.
Well greg H you’ll just have to hope that those stupid left wing micro parties top up a weak green vote.
Besides whats worse that, or having another ALP rubber stamper.
If ever a vote is wasted it is wasted when voteing for an ALP senator.
Nothing more than party hacks.
Nov 20th, 2009
paul walter
Lorikeet, you sound like you enjoyed your school days about as much as I did.
Interesting comment.
Nov 20th, 2009
Lorikeet
Paul Walter:
I loved school and was a very good student. The only indoctrination I remember receiving was in a History class, where the teacher constantly pushed his Liberal voting agenda.
In 1969 (Year 9) we were told to have 2.3 children to achieve Zero Population Growth, even though our nation had been below that figure since the contraceptive pill was introduced in 1961.
Oh yeah, and steer clear of the boys for fear of ending up pregnant.
My now 17-year-old son had all sorts of crap dished up to him in Year 7, but the only rubbish that seemed to sink in (since he was tiny) was the new government agenda that ensures that children are empowered and therefore don’t do anything they’re told – being the masters of their own destiny.
Nov 20th, 2009
Lorikeet
Greg H:
I’m looking at an excellent point you made about micro parties topping up the Liberal vote.
I would like to see a REAL LABOR PARTY that looks after ordinary workers and the poor, without giving out Middle Class welfare.
I would like politicians to support policies which are a reflection of their stated concerns e.g. over the amalgamation of public schools, parlous state of public health/hospitals and huge numbers of homeless people.
Voters don’t want to hear “hot air” which is not followed up with appropriate action, or to be subjected to the development of policies which cancel each other out.
Nov 20th, 2009
paul walter
Amazing, Lorikeet!
Was in second year high school in ‘69. A new outer suburban school with dustbowl for an oval and a ton of migrant kids with issues of their own, on top of all the usual teen angst.
What got me riled a bit later, was a Geography teacher who got up and called me a “communist agitator”in front of the class , after me asking a question that had not the remotest connection with any sort of politics, left or right.
I figured, “they dont want to know me, well blow them, they are only phonies” and saw politics in a new light, after that antic.
Nov 20th, 2009
Greg H.
Andrew Says: Not surprisingly, after many years competing for the same seats, a litany of perceived slights developed between people within the Democrats and the Greens.
Yes, I’ve always operated on the theory that the reason the Greens and Democrats disliked each other so much during the nineties and early 2000s was because they were essentially very similar, but each viewed the other as having an unacceptable element. And each thought the other was stealing THEIR voters.
The Democrats viewed the greens as having too many “unrealistic” people who were, frankly, a bit embarrassing. Alternative lifestyle types and crypt-communists and the like.
And of course the greens considered the Democrats as either standing for nothing at all – or for standing for the green agenda but with periodic selling-out and the inclusion in the party of your Meg Lees and Andrew Murray types who many suspected weren’t on side with the whole progressive agenda to start with.
But anyway, I guess history records that The Greens “won” the battle, although it’s probably more accurate to say that the dems commited suicide.
And now many old dems are joining their vanquishing foe! How will it change us? Will they bring their old prejudices – against us being “unrealistic” and embarrassing? That fairies at the bottom of the garden slur really upset you dems it seems. Seared it into your brains.
Personally I don’t want the greens to turn into the democrats. I just hope that you ex-dems realise that you are in a new and different party and don’t try to turn it into the old democrats.
Nov 21st, 2009
paul walter
I’d guess Andrew and Greg reach the same underlying conclusion.
Neither the Greens or Democrats were essentially “wrong” in their underlying thinking and social analysis.
Being bearers of progressive thinking they would have known how difficult the path explaining the new ideas to an electorate with limited political consciousness, reinforced by establishment media and politics. Were they “wrong” in experiencing frustration, including with each other, when the project became protracted?
The fault line is a little similar to the old fracture line within social democracy and socialism between advocates of robust direct action, on the basis that society, its people and rulers, are incorrigibly dysfunctional.
Others, alternatively, emphasised the role of gradual change obtained thru painstaking argument; the role of informed public opinion won over by reason, as a less blunt tool for acheiving the the necessary social change.
Within our society there is in turn, a split between a fragmented soft left movement which incorporates followers of both above positions; also some in Labor. These stand united only in their suspicion of their bedfellows, practitioners of politics represented by the Labor right; a political centre that is harsh, pragmatist, opportunist, anti-intellectual, realist thru to reactionary and small “c”conservative”. These are regarded has more in common with elements of Hansonism, than with so called progressive politics.
Costello type liberals and liberals for native forests, “doctors wives” etc have also been involved, as occasional allies for “the left” against big money; old or new.
Standing back, we see also how useful (enlightened) centrists like Murray could be, in reaching out to establish grounds for discussion, a little like Tanner during this time: facilitators.
Nov 21st, 2009
Lorikeet
Whoops, I missed out some of the most important issues.
I would like all of our elected representatives to be able to vote according to their own conscience on EVERY issue, using a secret ballot, instead of politicians having to cross the floor and then be criticised by the party leader or others. To me, that is destructive cultism in action.
I don’t want the National or State Executive of any party dogmatically directing the party leader or MPs, whether it is on their own behalf, or worse still, outside interests (especially huge corporations).
I think ANYONE should be able to run for election, with equal media access and equal funding, provided solely by the government i.e. no private donations of any kind.
Then hopefully we will see true democracy in action in this country, instead of group thinking and corporate domination.
Greg H:
If The Greens picked up a few ideas from the Australian Democrats, it could only be a plus, although both parties are now much too Green for me, in more ways than one.
You cannot tell new members of ANY party that they may not push for some kind of change. What are you running? A communist dictatorship?
Nov 21st, 2009
Anthony
It’s practically impossible for a minor party to win a lower house seat. The Greens + Democrats statewide got 8% last time. It’s just unlikely you’re going to be able to pull that much support into the district without a huge bucket of cash dropping on your head.
Nov 23rd, 2009
Lorikeet
Anthony:
Yes, that’s exactly the point. We need to divorce our candidates and elected politicians from any financial advantage or inducement – even divorcing them from each other would be good.
Factions would still form on various issues, but that’s okay.
To my knowledge, minor parties and independents also get blocked from the media in favour of those from major parties.
I don’t think Steve Fielding (FF) has too much in common with The Greens, but when he tried to do something more to limit payouts to CEOs, the only people who backed him were all 6 of The Greens.
I don’t think much of the rest of the people who wanted to legislate on this matter, but showed no interest in Fielding’s amendment.
But I think the lack of even one Labor, Liberal or National Party supporter is positive proof of dictatorship in action.
Nov 24th, 2009
Lorikeet
Now that the Liberals are tearing each other apart over the ETS, if a double dissolution occurs, maybe some seats could go to minor parties and independents after all.
But if it were me, and I was a Liberal or Labor MP, an election at the moment is the last thing I would want.
We may even see the formation of a new party comprising Labor/Greens/some Liberals.
Maybe the rest of the Liberals will join the National Party.
Nov 28th, 2009
kim
About time! :) Good luck.
Dec 7th, 2009
Karla Sperling
Good luck Andrew,
On Sat at a booth in Bradfield, one of the people handing out was also with me on the campaign team for the Cunningham by – election win. You might be interested in our reminisences.
Our primary vote in Cunningham (23%) was less than in Bradfield but we managed to win for three reasons. First, a great local candidate. Second, preference flows from both the right and left. Just about no one preferenced labor. Third of course the ALP primary vote plunged to below 50% so they couldnt win without preferences.
So different from Bradfield, where the libs primary vote held up despite a swing and there were no other strong candidates who preferenced us.
Dont know anything about the particular circumstances in Brisbane, but perhaps if you put the effort into a preferences strategy, you might just get there.
All the best
Karla Sperling
Dec 7th, 2009
Matt Goudie
Congratulations on your candidacy.
I was wondering if you had any difficulty in joining the Greens in terms of their policy platform. I’m no expert on the detail of the Green or Democrat policies but I would suspect that there are some great differences in specific strategy if not the goals in some areas, particularly toward things like taxation. What made you decide to join the Greens apart from them not being Labor or Coalition?
Dec 7th, 2009
Marit Hegge
How sad Andrew that you ended up having to join the Greens. I resigned from that organisation of pot heads and losers in 2007 after a year or so of lapsed membership.
You do realise don’t you that they have NEVER had anyone elected in Qld who actually ran as a Green since they were first formed in 1992 except for a couple of people at local government level, but not in the big councils such as Brisbane or Gold Coast.
The North Brisbane branch that you will probably be in had a few sensible people when I was in it, however suffered quite badly 2002 – 2005 when the Peak Oil people attempted a coup at state level and were more or less running the branch. Bet you don’t know some of that history do you? Or about the presence of so many ex-Marihuana Party members in the ranks, so that you will always be guaranteed a good time wasting debate on why we should legalise drugs at every state conference!
Weird and wacky times to say the least are coming your way as a member of the Green Party.
And of course they never have any money because thanks to people like NSW Greens MP Lee Rhianon they are not allowed to accept big donations from business people. So live hand to mouth between each election. Have since 1992 existed in one flea pit office after another. Have heard their latest office is at Albion Peace Centre? I hope for your sake they have air-con (although possibly not because true Greens should not do that) because that big tin shed is a real sweat box!
Unfortunately other high profile people like yourself have been talked into running for the Greens, and have been used and abused. Over 15 years I watched quite a passing parade of them.
Interesting though that they did not give you the #1 Senate spot – considering after all you did have a lot of experience with the job. Possibly Larissa Waters was the main factor preventing that one happening – after all she did roll the Greens national convenor at the last federal preselection to claim it.
Dec 10th, 2009
Marit Hegge
I also saw Andrew that you mentioned you ran in the seat of Brisbane in 1996. Strangely enough you ran for the Democrats against my ex-husband, who stood for the Greens that year. Funny how life turns out. Anyhow he is still in the Greens so you will possibly meet up with him again at some meetings.
I haven’t been to a Greens meeting now since 2005, and as I said resigned in 2007. Was branch secretary of North Brisbane for years, as well as on the management and state and national committees. And of course as you know, in the Green Alliance all those years back with you. One of the things I do remember though was some of the really SMELLY people I had to occasionally put up with at branch meetings – ones who I suspect were sleeping rough at Northey St city farm! Wearing of deodorant and cologne should be mandatory at Greens meetings! And occasionally these people would be inflicted on me in my own HOME because of the Greens.
By 2006 I was just SO OVER these people!
Because sooner or later something really weird will happen to you when you are associated with them. These people are not the Democrats. You will come to realise that the more you see of them. And come the election you are going to be collectively lumped with some seriously strange people in the candidate line up – who are in desperate need of a style consultant and new wardrobes. You should have seen some of the photos I had to work with when I was laying out the HTVs on occasions.
There is a reason why they have never been voted into office in Qld. And it is not just the lack of an upper house in the State parliament! And why they have never had a Queensland Senator!
Sensible thing for them would have been to have had you run as #1 Senate candidate but as I said in the other post it could not happen because of Larissa Waters. So now you will have people wondering ??? throughout your campaign!
Dec 10th, 2009
Andrew Bartlett
Thanks Marit. I was aware of most of that history, but no party is perfect. I know there have been some upheavals and disputes within the Greens over the years, but as just about everybody knows, the Democrats had a few very major ones themselves.
I know the Greens have never won a Senate seat in Queensland up until now – I’d like to think that this was in part because of the excellent representation that was provided by the Democrats in Queensland up until the most recent election, but I’ll concede there may also be other factors.
As for your comments regarding my running as a Senate candidate this time around, as you know it is not within the party’s capacity to “give” the number one spot on the Senate ticket to me or anyone else. The party’s members decide that. There may have been some people unhappy that Larissa Waters won the contest for the top of the Senate ticket last election, but everyone has a right to run and if the majority of members vote for them, then they’ve got every right to be top of the ticket. I could have contested for the Senate ticket this time, but I chose not to, not least because I wanted to try something a bit different. So seeing I didn’t nominate for that contest, it was impossible for the party members to ‘give’ me spot on the Senate ticket whether they wanted to or not. The fact that Larissa won the number 1 spot on the ticket again presumably reflects the members’ regard for her.
I already knew a reasonable number of Greens members (and former Greens members) before getting involved. It sounds a bit like you might have an idealised vision of what the Democrats were like – the Democrats had a reasonable share of curious people too. But whilst such people can sometimes be hard work, it is a reminder that the wider community is made up of a diversity of people and we sometimes could do better at not excluding people just because they seem a bit odd. Which isn’t to say that they should all be candidates, but finding candidates to fill all seats is a problem for any smaller party (sometimes for the majors too), so some less than ideal candidates sometimes slip through. The stronger the party the better the quality of candidate, and hopefully I can help attract a few more quality people to get involved.
As for drug law reform, I think it would be beneficial for most individuals and for society if drug policy prioritised a harm-minimisation, health approach l reform is long overdue, although I do have a problem with those advocates for drug law reform who sometimes infer that various drugs are not harmful. I must say I haven’t come across any such debate since I’ve been in the Greens – but in any case the Democrats once had an MP who stated that ecstasy was harmless, which I’m not aware of any Green MP saying. And I’m not in favour of drug law reform because I’m a ‘pot head’ – I’m in what seems to be a minority these days of never having tried an illegal drug – but I believe the harm drugs can do is better managed through a health framework rather than a law and order one, which in many cases seems to compound the harm and the expense, rather than reduce it. In any case, the larger a party gets the more diverse them members are – the key thing is what the policies are and I think they are now reasonably balanced in this area.
As for corporate donations, I understand the frustrations of having limited money, but I think there is a lot to be said for the approach the Greens have taken in this area. I had some involvement in corporate fundraising when I was with the Democrats, and whilst there was never anything overly untoward, I don’t think it is very desirable. There is a very good reason why people feel uncomfortable with the ‘cash for access’ approach which is involved with some aspects of political fundraising, and indeed it seems possible that the continual highlighting of this problem (including by the Greens, though not just them) might even be leading to some substantial reform federally, as well as in Queensland and maybe NSW. Large donations from any source – not just corporations – are inherently problematic, but money is needed to compete in campaigns, which puts political parties in something of a bind.
It’s true the latest Greens office in the Albion Peace Centre won’t win any awards for luxurious office space, but it was good enough as an office for Community Aid Abroad/Oxfam for many years and its very close to public transport so I think it suits fairly well. But I’ll try to remember to wear deodorant (might give the cologne a miss though)
Anyway, I know being involved in a political party at the grassroots can be very wearing, and once people are over it they tend to be VERY over it. But it is good you stuck at it for as long as you did. I am going into this with my eyes open though – it may be my tolerance levels have eroded over the years as well, but we’ll see how next year pans out. There are aspects of politics that aren’t a lot of fun, but internal party things are usually not the worst parts of it.
Dec 12th, 2009
togret
What a shame that those people who smell ‘off’ are endowed with both humanity and citizenship. It must truly be difficult to work with people who need a style consultant. Oh the horror of it all. What a set of priorities.
Dec 13th, 2009
Marit Hegge
Good that you are going into the Green party with “eyes wide open” and after your years in Canberra will probably have a more pragmatic view than most.
I must admit that in 1991 when I was one of the founders of the Qld and Australian Greens I was very starry eyed and idealist and I really did believe that the Greens were committed to doing politics differently and that we would change the world. Believed also that were were at the cutting edge of politics, we were the only ones with true commitment etc. And of course human nature and the nature of politics in the real world political arena failed to live up to my expectations – which were possibly unrealistic at the time.
I basically have no faith in the party political system any more, nor in the integrity of political parties. I still turn up to vote as my legal requirement, however do not necessarily have to actually vote for anyone when filling out the ballot paper! This is what 15 years in politics has done to me!
The final end point for me did come in the 2007 federal election campaign when I saw the vicious Senate pre-selection campaign that occurred between the main contestants Larissa Waters and the then national Greens coordinator Juanita Wheeler. I was astounded at the levels of nastiness which both sides sank to.
Up until the end of 2005 had been active in the Greens, when I had served in various office bearer positions. So I had a very good perspective on what went on within the innner circles of the party. However I felt the Qld Greens had sunk to new depths in the 2007 Senate campaign and could no longer be a member. Was SO over them by then that I decided to even cut all social ties and wipe them from my address book!
Dec 14th, 2009
Andrew Bartlett
Yes, I’d heard some things a few years ago suggesting the pre-selection for the Senate ticket leading up to the 2007 election got a bit fiesty. It’s never ideal when that happens, although it can be hard to avoid when there is a strong contest. The Senate pre-selection certainly to be quite civilised this time around, even though there was a strong contest.
In any case, the big challenge will come next year as the election looms – it’s always hard work being the thrid paryt in a two party system. It is impossible to compete financially, so it will need a lot of people willing to put in the hard campaigining work at ground level – we’ll seehow it goes.
Dec 14th, 2009
paul walter
Yes, Andrew.
Perhaps the Murdoch press will run the same sort of campaign against the Greens as they did during events like the the “Latham” election of 2004.
But, as a Democrat, you will probably be already aware of what the big guys try to do to the smaller units, so not much more to say, I guess.
Dec 14th, 2009